Se nama GrēclandesAdiht

I used Bosworth and Toller's dictionary, which lists Grēcland on b0488 as:

Gréc-land, es; n. Greece :-- Dionisius gewende on ðam tíman fram Gréclande Dionysius returned at that time from Greece, Homl. Th. i. 558, 33. [Laym. griclond.]

Good to have you here! - --James 00:33, 2 Hāligmōnaþ 2008 (UTC)

Macrons in titlesAdiht

You didnt really give time for consensus... but it would be best for you to restore all pages to their original titles, and then simply create new pages without macrons, and then use that new page as a redirect to the old/original page. For instance, if there is more than one way to title something, all other non-primary titles will point to the main one.

#REDIRECT [[Original page name]]

This coding up here will allow you to do so.

Ƿōdenhelm 07:54, 13 Hāligmōnaþ 2008 (UTC)

Yeah I hear ya man. I myself wish that we had the option to treat plain or macron vowels as the same, but we dont seem to. I feel that it would be best to have the macron-titles as the page's true title, with any alternatives pointing to the main page. For instance, I made an article about the game Starcraft (from Blizzard Entertainment) and I created several redirects, in order to compensate for those alternate titles... such as Starcraft, StarCraft, Steorracræft, SteorraCræft, TungolCræft, and so forth.

If you and I work together, I'm confident that we'll come up with a good solution :)

Ƿōdenhelm 21:15, 20 Hāligmōnaþ 2008 (UTC)

I'm just wondering...Adiht

Why you constantly change things around?

Ƿōdenhelm 20:35, 30 Winterfylleþ 2008 (UTC)

Alright that seems to make sense. It's just mainly seeing alot of the nation names being suddenly changed, I was curious about it, and was wondering as to the motivation. National names can indeed be tricky, and alot of thought has to be put into them. Just an example, "Washington" seems like it would be very similar, but upon research, I found that its most likely origin is "Hwæsingatūn". I've got an English friend who lives up in the Washington area of NE England, (which is the origin of George Washington's family). Others would be far more tricky, like Virginia. I'll be honest, I'd have no idea how to back-track that one, unless you wanted to go with "Mæġdenia" or something strange of that nature. Otherwise I'd shoot for Wirgīnia, Weorgēnia, or something. Suggestions for Virginia are much-needed. I've actually made a neologism-proposal page, which can be found here

Ƿōdenhelm 04:37, 31 Winterfylleþ 2008 (UTC)


I dont understand this term, and I cannot find it anywhere else across the entire web. What do you mean by it?

Ƿōdenhelm 08:13, 3 Blōtmōnaþ 2008 (UTC)

Ah I got'cha. For some strange reason, I was looking at "rec" to be a second prefix which I had never seen. Go ahead and place your term on the neologism proposal page, so we can start keeping track of all the used and proposed ones in one place (flipping through every article gets tedious after a while!)

Kingly stylesAdiht

Response can be found here. Oh and how long you gonna be online tonight? If you give me about an hour, we could perhaps chat by IM, so we can conjure up positive ways to overhaul this wiki. —Ƿōdenhelm 23:29, 6 Gēolmōnaþ 2008 (UTC)


I'm perfectly aware of the fact that there was no V in OE, but the title of Virginia will remain as it is, for the simple facts that:

  1. The title is not (and prob'ly never will be) rendered into OE, and
  2. The V at the beginning represents a sound which otherwise would only occur medially in a word in OE, therefore it would make no sense to use either a U (which would be the W sound) or an F (which, at the beginning, would be an F sound).

Therefore, I'm asking you to stop edit-warring. And dont use the "accuracy" excuse. —Ƿōdenhelm 15:28, 12 Gēolmōnaþ 2008 (UTC)

Re: Welcome backAdiht

Thanks for the greeting. I can't promise to contribute regularly, but it is nice to be back.

Thanks for making me aware of the yogh/wen issue. I must say I that while I do favour the use of macrons in titles (as you apparently do not) I do however agree with your apparent position against the use of yogh and wen: I think we should follow the conventions of modern Anglo-Saxon scholarship and use g and w.

One thing, though: I would ask that when you disagree with a page move that you focus on getting it moved back rather than trying to recreate it as you did with Geānlǣht Cynerīce. When you recreate something and give it a non-empty article history, it means the article actually can't be moved without the help of an admin. Nobody short of an admin can move Ȝeānlǣht Cynerīce to Geānlǣht Cynerīce. --Saforrest 04:16, 18 Gēolmōnaþ 2008 (UTC)

On every edit pageAdiht

"Please note: If you don't want your writing to be edited mercilessly or redistributed for profit by others, do not submit it." For example, should you intend to learn Japanese and write an article there, you cannot do so if you cant type in the Japanese script. Same goes for any other language across the planet and their native scripts.

Oh and by the way, your boy james has been using yogh himself on another wiki website. Just view the "style vote" page for proof of this. —Ƿōdenhelm 15:46, 31 Gēolmōnaþ 2008 (UTC)

If it isnt personal, then dont try to get it codified and put into "rules." Just think... you, as an Englishman, would be angered if American-based Wikipedia (not Wikipaedia!) were to codify the entire English language wiki to reflect only American spelling convention, am I not right? Would you be angry if I were to tell you that you're not permitted to use U when writing color, armor, and honor? Perhaps I did go a lil overboard with the mass-conversions. But there are no, and never will be, rules dictating spelling. Even if james tries to make it a rule, he's only an administrator, not a policy-creator. The whole vote is BS, particularly when he tries to pull in people who dont know a word of OE, just to inflate the vote count, especially when he uses yogh his own self on another wiki! His actions right there prove that his intentions are personal against me. Yours might not be, but I strongly suspect that his are. And on top of that, the other editors dont even participate here anymore. —Ƿōdenhelm 15:59, 31 Gēolmōnaþ 2008 (UTC)


Do you use AIM or Yahoo? —Ƿōdenhelm 16:56, 5 Se Æfterra Gēola 2009 (UTC)


I think I found the perfect solution to the ȝƿ/gw dilemma. View the small links at the top of the Sciþþisc īsmæȝden page to see what I'm talking about :D —ᛁᚳ ᚻᚹᛁᛋᛈᚱᛖ ᛁᚾ ᚦᚫᛗ ᛠᚱᛖᚾ ᚦᚪᚱᚪ ᛞᛠᛞᚪ... 08:32, 20 Se Æfterra Gēola 2009 (UTC)

The only thing about the font though, is that it's not at all a font issue. Just for instance, I can view w and ƿ just fine side-by-side, and at the same time, sometimes w and ƿ need to be considered separate characters. Just as how ȝ is used in some instances of g. Otherwise I'd see funny renderings, such as "Ȝeorȝe Ƿ. Bush."
Me, I'll volunteer to keep all ȝƿ pages up to date, and on equal par with their gw counterparts. I've got several keyboard layouts that I've created, so I can type those up, and the Runic Futhorc, with no problem.
The user preference option would have been the best of those solutions, but i got tired of waiting around, and Meta-users not understanding the need or request. The idea hit me when I was reading about Gothic, and I suddenly remembered that the Gothic wikipedia has 3 versions of each page: One with Gothic script, one with latin, and one with Runic. So it hit me that "YES! THAT's the answer!"
So far, I'm liking the results. Now whether the gw pages will use ġ/ċ or not, I'll let you all decide that, since it's not really "my" area, so to say. That's up to you folks. —ᛁᚳ ᚻᚹᛁᛋᛈᚱᛖ ᛁᚾ ᚦᚫᛗ ᛠᚱᛖᚾ ᚦᚪᚱᚪ ᛞᛠᛞᚪ... 13:53, 20 Se Æfterra Gēola 2009 (UTC)

Something I need to bring to your attentionAdiht

Please get this taken care of sometime. Thanks. — ᚹᚩᛞᛖᚾᚻᛖᛚᛗ 16:17, 16 Solmōnaþ 2009 (UTC)


About those templates, ive noticed that some of the more vital or intricate ones pretty much have templates within templates within templates within templates. What ive been doing, is copy/pasting from the English version, hitting Preview, and then looking at the bottom of the preview page to see if the one i'm trying to set up, makes use of any other templates.

If it does, i go and copy it also... and i have to repeat that entire process until i can step my way back to the original template, and it ends up being completed. Then there's the translations of tables and whatnot. It would be even more of a pain if i didnt have tabbed browsing.

You can view Hƿæsingatūn Capitals, Street Fighter IV and Bram Stoker's Dracula to see some of the templates ive imported. — ᚹᚩᛞᛖᚾᚻᛖᛚᛗ 13:36, 17 Solmōnaþ 2009 (UTC)


This is the Old English Wikipedia. Not latin. If you wish to make use of latin, please edit here instead. The only OE speakers who would have used a latin name, were those who had political ties to them. Relatively modern or not, Black Sea it is. — ᚹᚩᛞᛖᚾᚻᛖᛚᛗ 16:16, 19 Solmōnaþ 2009 (UTC)

I'll ask Gherkinmad what the best cognate to haf is, then. I'd like to avoid loanwords as much as possible, really. — ᚹᚩᛞᛖᚾᚻᛖᛚᛗ 20:32, 19 Solmōnaþ 2009 (UTC)

Seven Kingdoms categoriesAdiht

Thanks for making those. As I had originally made the English Kings category, I was planning on eventually making the corresponding Seven Kingdoms counterparts as well, but I sorta got distracted by other topics. — ᚹᚩᛞᛖᚾᚻᛖᛚᛗ 22:34, 2 Sēremōnaþ 2009 (UTC)

RE: StatesAdiht

Well each and every single edit seems to be done in exactly your style that you've previously attempted to put forth. — ᚹᚩᛞᛖᚾᚻᛖᛚᛗ 20:40, 23 Mǣdmōnaþ 2009 (UTC)

RE: Floccas, There possibly arent even that many American editors to begin with. Me personally, I take more interest in putting fun and interesting article topics on here, than the usual standard things, only bothering to do basic-level things if one of my articles needs a link back to it. Soon I will do various sports-related things. — ᚹᚩᛞᛖᚾᚻᛖᛚᛗ 00:03, 24 Mǣdmōnaþ 2009 (UTC)


The "ȝemotstoƿ" edit was just me messing with you. Dont think anything of it :D — ᚹᚩᛞᛖᚾᚻᛖᛚᛗ 22:43, 10 Wēodmōnaþ 2009 (UTC)

Hey I was just thinking...Adiht

Our article for Germany is currently Þēodiscland, and I feel that going with þēod is indeed the best translation of Deutschland, as even Icelandic uses Þýskaland, which is clearly closer to our range of Germanic speech. But I figured maybe we could make just the ever slightest distinction between þēodisc (native) and Þēodisc (German, of Germany), by simply removing the -i- and making the word more in line with Deutsch and Þýsk. It would be just enough distinction to show which meaning is intended (where "þēodiscland" could also be taken to mean "ēðel"), while not radically altering the word at all, still reflecting its origin. Consider how we use a slightly different form of Deutsch, "Dutch," to refer to those from the Netherlands, as well as the various other slightly-different forms for other types of Germanic speech: Pennsylvania Deitsch, and all those. Think that sounds good? — ᚹᚩᛞᛖᚾᚻᛖᛚᛗ 20:26, 11 Wēodmōnaþ 2009 (UTC)

+ Also, this should be of interest: As a language name, first recorded as L. theodice, 786 C.E. in correspondence between Charlemagne's court and the Pope, in reference to a synodical conference in Mercia; thus it refers to Old English. Taken from — ᚹᚩᛞᛖᚾᚻᛖᛚᛗ 20:33, 11 Wēodmōnaþ 2009 (UTC)


On Willelm II Engla Cyning, you used the term Ytene, but I couldnt find it anywhere else. What is it? — ᚹᚩᛞᛖᚾᚻᛖᛚᛗ 00:17, 12 Wēodmōnaþ 2009 (UTC)

Got'cha. Since it was a link, I figured it was the name of something, I'd just never seen it before. — ᚹᚩᛞᛖᚾᚻᛖᛚᛗ 07:20, 12 Wēodmōnaþ 2009 (UTC)


Thank You. Mtaylor848 22:15, 14 Wēodmōnaþ 2009 (UTC)

Eald Englisc Google GroupAdiht

I made an Eald Englisc Google Group (web or email-based), everyone's free to join. All subject matter, orthographic styles, and dialects of OE are good to go. Only "rule" is to actually use OE whenever you write. See you there man. — ᚹᚩᛞᛖᚾᚻᛖᛚᛗ 22:37, 19 Wēodmōnaþ 2009 (UTC)

Þancas for þǣm LēoȝeƿriteAdiht

Mē þyncþ hit betera þonne āhƿītung, ac ić tō slæcful ƿæs hit tō ƿrītenne. (ēac besmēaga ealdcranic for þīnum ȝesprecsīdan) — ᚹᚩᛞᛖᚾᚻᛖᛚᛗ 13:29, 22 Wēodmōnaþ 2009 (UTC)

haha congratulations on your venture into such territory. — ᚹᚩᛞᛖᚾᚻᛖᛚᛗ 00:26, 8 Hāligmōnaþ 2009 (UTC)

Anglo-Saxon Interface EmailAdiht

Hi, I am wondering if there is an email service (such as gmail or which could have an option of editing hypertext words for folders and functions, so I can customise my email in real Anglo-Saxon. Have you got an idea of a service like this?

It would depend on the programme you are using to do the e-mails. In MS Outlook, for example, you may have Word as the editor within it. Then it doesn't matter which e-mail service you have.
There are some suggestions on typing OE letters in various formats here.
No software provider has an Englisc spell checker or language support yet.
Hogweard 16:34, 26 Hāligmōnaþ 2009 (UTC)
Thank you! It's not what I meant tho. I mean the Eald Englisc interface, where you could enter cumende instead of Inbox, wrītan instead of Write, sendan instead of Send, and fylð instead of Spam. I mean, you'd have an option of editing folder and function hyperlinks. -- 19:47, 26 Hāligmōnaþ 2009 (UTC)
I've not heard of anything that lets you do that. It would be a fine thing. If you come across anything that does it, do put it on the Gemotstow. Hogweard 19:58, 26 Hāligmōnaþ 2009 (UTC)

See my talk page response on that. What he's looking for, is UI (User Interface) customization. (which is supremely easy to do on OS X, by the way. You Windows-users... heh yall just need to ditch Windows and get with the program!) — ᚹᚩᛞᛖᚾᚻᛖᛚᛗ 01:23, 27 Hāligmōnaþ 2009 (UTC)

Constantinopolis editAdiht

Be aware of this edit, done by an IP address. Me personally I dont know whether it's factual to include or exclude the edited portion, so I wont touch it. — ᚹᚩᛞᛖᚾᚻᛖᛚᛗ 12:39, 8 Winterfylleþ 2009 (UTC)

Translation requestAdiht

Hi Hogweard, would you be so kind to help me translate this article into the wonderful Anglo-Saxon language? Please. It's about a Chinese philosopher and is listed as one of the articles every Wikipedia should have. If you think that article is too long, here is a short version: "Confucius was a Chinese thinker and social philosopher, whose teachings and philosophy have deeply influenced Chinese, Korean, Japanese and Vietnamese thought and life. His philosophy emphasized personal and governmental morality, correctness of social relationships, justice and sincerity." Thanks a lot! --Amaqqut


Hello. Could you translate some words into Old English to help with localization of your Wikipedia?

  • Robot -
  • Adding -
  • Modifying -
  • Removing -

Thank you! Hugo.arg 12:11, 7 Blōtmōnaþ 2009 (UTC)

I sorta have "selfƿyrhta" as a working name for "robot" til we think of something better. — ᚹᚩᛞᛖᚾᚻᛖᛚᛗ 05:00, 18 Blōtmōnaþ 2009 (UTC)


Ić þohte betƿuxƿici oþþe ȝeondƿici for him. — ᚹᚩᛞᛖᚾᚻᛖᛚᛗ 04:59, 18 Blōtmōnaþ 2009 (UTC)

A lil early, but...Adiht

Blīðe Ȝēol tō þē and þīnum cynne.
— ᚹᚩᛞᛖᚾᚻᛖᛚᛗ 10:48, 19 Gēolmōnaþ 2009 (UTC)


If you have the authority to (I don't know if you do), could you please move Woruld Wīde Webb to Woruldwīde Webb? Thanks. Gott wisst 02:44, 18 Se Æfterra Gēola 2010 (UTC)

Sorry, that's me on my more wiki-universal account. Forgot to change. Willcume ic þec on míne brúcendsídan! 05:19, 18 Se Æfterra Gēola 2010 (UTC)
Thanks, I didn't know that any account could do that on here. Willcume ic þec on míne brúcendsídan! 00:22, 19 Se Æfterra Gēola 2010 (UTC)

I'm gonna overhaul the Help PageAdiht

So far, I've written a test page. Look over it here, tell me if it seems ok to you. — ᚹᚩᛞᛖᚾᚻᛖᛚᛗ 08:40, 29 Hrēþmōnaþ 2010 (UTC)

Found thisAdiht

Thought you might find it interesting: Deals with Pictish writings. — ᚹᚩᛞᛖᚾᚻᛖᛚᛗ 07:06, 2 Ēastermōnaþ 2010 (UTC)

Cynerīce or rīce?Adiht

G'day, Hogweard. Would be able to have a look at this? Thanks, Hayden120 07:48, 6 Ēastermōnaþ 2010 (UTC)

Geography termsAdiht

At some point or another, would you be so kind as to add the various geographic terms you're using onto the newly-relocated Hū secge ic page? Thanks. -Wodenhelm


Þes brūcere giefþ Hogwearde þisne for his hefigan weorce be stōwum be þǣm sūðernan Atlantiscan Gārsecge. Willcume ic þec on míne brúcendsídan!

Anglo-Saxon ƿiþ ÆngliscAdiht

Bidde behielde þā Hēafodsīdan ȝespreċsīdan, ymbe "Anglo-Saxon" ƿiþ "Ænglisc" sƿā ūre betƿuxƿiki sprǣċnama. (ēac, teohhie ealdhord for þīnre ȝespreċsīdan) — ᚹᚩᛞᛖᚾᚻᛖᛚᛗ (ȝespreċ) 17:04, 13 Ēastermōnaþ 2010 (UTC)

Scēactæfl ƿæs to "Blēobord" ȝeferedAdiht

Ūre ȝeƿrit ymbe scēactæfle ƿæs to "blēobord" ȝefered bȳ mann þe næfre hider cymþ. Þēah blēobord ƿæs bȳ Angelseaxiscum mannum brūced, þæt gamen chess ƿæs to hīe uncūþ, and ȝelīefe iċ þe blēobord mǣnþ ǣniȝ bordgamen, oþþe, þæt bord himself. Sculdon ƿē him eft to scēactæfle ȝeferan? — ᚹᚩᛞᛖᚾᚻᛖᛚᛗ (ȝespreċ) 21:58, 16 Ēastermōnaþ 2010 (UTC)

Þonne sculdon ƿē bordgamen brūcan? — ᚹᚩᛞᛖᚾᚻᛖᛚᛗ (ȝespreċ) 20:47, 17 Ēastermōnaþ 2010 (UTC)

Francland, oþþe FrancalandAdiht

Bidde sēo mīn ȝespreċ on Gesprec:Francland. — ᚹᚩᛞᛖᚾᚻᛖᛚᛗ (ȝespreċ) 21:32, 17 Ēastermōnaþ 2010 (UTC)


I'm not going by a correct/incorrect stance at all, but more "I feel this is a better fit" stance... I take fruma to be the "source" of the information (showing where it comes from), with glēsing being more like a table of contents, or index in the back of a book, or can even be used as an index of vocabulary used within the article, like how KeepWatch did with his Perfume article (which I've put on its talk page). I suppose we never really have given that one formal discussion though. I'm flexible on it, but that's just how I see it. -Wodenhelm (not logged in)


Bidde sēo þis, sƿā ƿīċ lang i hæfþ. — ᚹᚩᛞᛖᚾᚻᛖᛚᛗ (ȝespreċ) 21:34, 21 Ēastermōnaþ 2010 (UTC)


Ȝif þē þyncþ hit gōd, iċ macode Ƿikispell:Hēafodsīde. Þū meaht þider gān bȳ “WS” hlenċe, and ēac þȳ Port:Efenealde belimpas hlenċe on þǣm "Þurhfōr" boxe. Þǣr is ān "Cunnung" sīde hēr. — ᚹᚩᛞᛖᚾᚻᛖᛚᛗ (ᚷᛖᛋᛈᚱᛖᚳ) 17:19, 27 Ēastermōnaþ 2010 (UTC)

Scoldon ƿē Ƿikispell beinniaþ on þǣre Hēafodsīdan? Sƿelċe under þǣm Angelseaxiscan helme. — ᚹᚩᛞᛖᚾᚻᛖᛚᛗ (ᚷᛖᛋᛈᚱᛖᚳ) 12:58, 1 Þrimilcemōnaþ 2010 (UTC)

Andsƿaru: Hēafod(byriȝ/stōlas)Adiht

Mē, iċ forebere hēafodbyriȝ, ac beȝen gōd bēoþ. Ȝif hēafodstōl(as) mā ȝeƿritu hæbbe, þonne hine brūcan, þus lēas ƿeorc tō dōnne. — ᚹᚩᛞᛖᚾᚻᛖᛚᛗ (ᚷᛖᛋᛈᚱᛖᚳ) 19:18, 30 Ēastermōnaþ 2010 (UTC)

Ēac, ne scoldon þā floccas mæniȝfealdisc bēon? Ȝeliċ, Burg in þǣm Niðerlandum, habbaþ þā Niðerlandum efne ān burg?? — ᚹᚩᛞᛖᚾᚻᛖᛚᛗ (ᚷᛖᛋᛈᚱᛖᚳ) 07:09, 1 Þrimilcemōnaþ 2010 (UTC)
Hey, I too think that "heafodstol" is better, because "hēafodburg" indicates a city, but not all capitals are necessarily large enough to be called a city (consider Greenland's capital)... I'll move the article "heafodburg" to "heafodstol". ! Willcume ic þec on míne brúcendsídan! 05:22, 6 Þrimilcemōnaþ 2010 (UTC)


Minu wordbec haefth "breost" for hrether. Hwaet is thin fruma for hrether? -Wodenhelm


Widsith sceal Ƿidsiþ bēon, mid . — ᚹᚩᛞᛖᚾᚻᛖᛚᛗ (ᚷᛖᛋᛈᚱᛖᚳ) 19:52, 9 Þrimilcemōnaþ 2010 (UTC)

Then you agree to unconditionally surrender to Ƿ then? — ᚹᚩᛞᛖᚾᚻᛖᛚᛗ (ᚷᛖᛋᛈᚱᛖᚳ) 21:32, 9 Þrimilcemōnaþ 2010 (UTC)
Actually, I'd be more concerned about vowel length ("wīd-sīþ/ð") than whether or not to use eth or thorn... Consider that it is meant to be a compound of the words "wīd" and "sīþ"... Willcume ic þec on míne brúcendsídan! 03:33, 10 Þrimilcemōnaþ 2010 (UTC)

Brundelbridd reAdiht

I was being creative. The word "brunel" I made with the word "brun" and the nominal neuter suffix -el. I am okay with "brunel" being moved to something like "Cīnisc gōsberige" (so feel free). The main reason I used "brunel" in both those words was to maintain the modern day link between "kiwi" and "kiwifruit" (although in this case it was visa versa). I am open to "brunelbridd" changing, also, because, as said before, the reason I used "brunel" in both of them was to maintain a connection present in MnE, which would be broken anyway if one were to move "brunel" (also, you just pointed out that "bridd" meant "nestling, young bird" - so not really fully appropriate for the whole group...).

Although it is said by some that the word "kiwi" comes from their call (that is quite an way to write kiwi calls... so are most ways of writing animal sounds), it is possible that it wasn't so (check en Wikipedia). As is full well known, I muchly dislike borrowing; so that is not the way I would solve it. Also, although it may be a common practice in ME to name animals after theirs sounds, it was rare, at best, in OE. Among many of the romance languages a borrowed and adapted version of "kiwi" co-exists with a usually borrowed-from-Greek-word meanings "wingless"(because of their tiny wings...) (Navajo also apparently has a native (modern) term, but it does not co-exist with "kiwi", and I do not know what it means). Perhaps something like "fiðerlēas fugol" (or just "fiðerlēasere") or "stȳtincel" ("ostrich (lit. "strutter?")+diminutive suf."). I actually kinda already had a borrowing up as co-existing (if you'll check the name on the image...). Willcume ic þec on míne brúcendsídan! 05:39, 17 Þrimilcemōnaþ 2010 (UTC)

5 ȝēarhundred Europe landcarteAdiht

Þæt biliþ Central Europe 5th Century.jpg, ƿāst þū hƿǣr man mæȝe hit finde būton þā ƿord? Iċ ƿille hit onto Englisce āƿendan. — ᚹᚩᛞᛖᚾᚻᛖᛚᛗ (ᚷᛖᛋᛈᚱᛖᚳ) 00:10, 18 Þrimilcemōnaþ 2010 (UTC)

“Ȝeāned Cynerīce”Adiht

Þenċst þū þæt ƿē sceoldon Ȝeāned Cynerīce brūcan, to mæccenne mid Þēodsces Vereinigtes Königreich? — ᚹᚩᛞᛖᚾᚻᛖᛚᛗ (ᚷᛖᛋᛈᚱᛖᚳ) 21:20, 22 Þrimilcemōnaþ 2010 (UTC)

re nz re-enactmentAdiht

I've not encountered the group down here, no. Although I'm not really active in the world of re-enactment... Last time I went to one was something like six years ago (and that was an ANZAC WW2 re-enactment). Possibly they are more active down near the bottom of the North Island, where there were quite a few Scandinavian settlers. Of course, NZ is a bit of a melting pot, too (mostly north-Europeans, Pacific Islanders (Maori being here included in that), and Asians)... Could you please give links to whatever pages mention the NZ group? I did only skim the page you linked too, plus a few others pages there, so maybe I missed it. Willcume ic þec on míne brúcendsídan! 03:11, 27 Þrimilcemōnaþ 2010 (UTC)

Probably they've dropped it... Most NZers don't have much feeling for history. NZ is a very young nation with only a little history, even compared with USA. I would like to join a group like that, but if it's done and gone... well, that's that. And even if it were they still, I am about to enter my last years of school-level education, so it'll be a bit busy for me for a while. I love fiddling with sticks and metal and material, but not much I can do in the way of metal, and I'm not exactly ornate with my sticks - just de-barking, a bit of shaping, sanding, and polishing (with oil/wax) usually. I muck around with my mates with some really rough sticks with swimming noddles taped on over top for padding; it's good fun with less damage-chance... Willcume ic þec on míne brúcendsídan! 01:05, 28 Þrimilcemōnaþ 2010 (UTC)

re gereflandAdiht

Ic sohte þæt word, and ic fand þas tomearcunge: "tributary land". Dunno if that's the best of meanings, since there is generally supposed to be more than just a "we take, you give" relationship between the depended and the dependent... Hwæt þencest? Willcume ic þec on míne brúcendsídan! 05:54, 31 Þrimilcemōnaþ 2010 (UTC)

re ProtestantAdiht

Ah, I did not know that there was an already established term. It was acutaly "Hrēam-isc" ("hrēam" - outcry); the "-a" was just a grammatical ending... I'll go change it. Willcume ic þec on míne brúcendsídan! 06:43, 12 Sēremōnaþ 2010 (UTC)

Red linkAdiht

Ea, þonce þe for ðæm ðu beterodest ðone hlencan ymb ðone muð, ac se oðer hlenca wæs soþlice "ears" (behind, rear, rump etc). Willcume ic þec on míne brúcendsídan! 23:21, 9 Mǣdmōnaþ 2010 (UTC)

re:needless stuffAdiht

Yes, sorry about that... Many of those redirects were unneeded. Willcume ic þec on míne brúcendsídan! 08:24, 20 Mǣdmōnaþ 2010 (UTC)


Acording to B&T, "plegestre" means female athlete... It has "scericge" for "actress" (and suggests that it was really just a badly formed wynn that looked like r, since those two were quite similar size and shape in OE, and male actors/actors in general were called "sceawere" (with a long stem vowel). Hwæt þencest þū be þissum? Willcume ic þec on míne brúcendsídan! 06:53, 27 Mǣdmōnaþ 2010 (UTC)


Umm... dunno if you are aware, but if you'd like an in-wiki admin, I recommend you vote at the "Wicipædia:Bene to Bewitendhada" page. Willcume ic þec on míne brúcendsídan! 06:52, 30 Mǣdmōnaþ 2010 (UTC)


Sorry, I forgot that "cƿēn(e)" was both treated as a weak noun and a strong noun in English.    Ƿes hāl!     21:24, 26 Se Æfterra Gēola 2011 (UTC)


Back when Wodenhelm was made admin you were also nominated. You never accepted. I'm now a steward and was wondering if you still wanted adminship? fr33kman -simpleWP- 21:50, 10 Hrēþmōnaþ 2011 (UTC)


Hey, um, I don't know what a "mædwe" (in the "Oxnaford" article) is. I can't find it in my dictionaries. What does it mean?    Ƿes hāl!     06:31, 16 Hrēþmōnaþ 2011 (UTC)

Sƿīðe ȝōd. Þoncie þē.    Ƿes hāl!     07:05, 16 Hrēþmōnaþ 2011 (UTC)


If you look at the end of the section, it gives "An. Ox." as a reference. I looked through the explanation of references to find this (the images of it, that is), and eventually found it in the explanation of references for the supplement volume (by T. Northcote Toller): It is in the Anecdote Oxoniensin, some Old English glosses edited by Arthur S. Napier. The gloss in which it is in appears to be for Aldhelm's Enigmata, which I cannot find anywhere on the net.

I found it by searching for "dogfish", an older English name for sharks, than "sharks". However, it should be noted that the German word "Seehund" means "seal". Also, in the text it is given to mean "Scilla", a mythical monster.

Anyway, here is a link to the text the glosses: [1]    Ƿes hāl!     23:43, 23 Winterfylleþ 2011 (UTC)

Request for translation. Yanka Kupala and Yakub KolasAdiht

Warm greeting from Belarusian Wikipedia! This year we celebrate 130. birthday of Belarusian great poets en:Yanka Kupala and en:Yakub Kolas Could you help us to translate articles into your unique and honourable language? Thank you in advance!--Rymchonak 07:27, 20 Se Æfterra Gēola 2012 (UTC)

Battle for Wesnoth Translation and Old English glibc localesAdiht

Hello, Hogweard.

A long time ago, I started two Old English translations for The Battle for Wesnoth (one in the Latin alphabet and the other in the fuþorc). It slowly developed over time, but since I felt unqualified to translate alone, I've been seeking out those who are well-versed in Old English to help with the translation... mainly because there are a lot of terms to coin. A little while ago, I came here and talked to Gottistgut about it; he decided to join; he also pointed me to you, so I was wondering if you were interested in helping us.

Here is our wiki article on the Wesnoth wiki. Although it talks about the fuþorc, it doesn't talk about the Latin alphabet (I really should put some info about our standards for that there sometime...); however, our rules for the Latin alphabet are simple: use æsc, ðæt (we tend to only use ðæt word-medially and never as a geminate [right now, we use þþ instead]), þorn, ƿynn, normal g, and no marking palatalization and vowel length. If we decided to mark vowel length all the sudden, we would use macrons. Also, we haven't completely decided on our standards for the fuþorc, thus the runic version's way behind the Latin one.

Of course, you can download the game and see what we've done so far for yourself at or you can go [2] and look at the translation files.

As for the locales mentioned in the header, they're only of use if you use Linux or some other operating system that uses glibc. If you can make use of them, you can have fun with them by using them with the "date" command; they also help with Wesnoth's alphanumeric sorting algorithms so that things are alphabetized more properly. Here is the git repository for the glibc locales if you're interested in looking at... the only locale file I've made so far (I'll get to making a runic one... eventually).

Thank you for time; I hope that all goes well. ― Espreon (talk) 02:56, 11 Ēastermōnaþ 2012 (UTC)

Small translation requestAdiht


I'm looking for a translation for ang.Wiktionary: a free multilingual dictionary. I believe I have most of the phrase, but am lacking 'multilingual': sēo frēo ƿordbōc.

- Amgine (talk) 01:18, 6 Blōtmōnaþ 2012 (UTC)

sēo frēoe wordbōc mid manigfealdum gereordum Hogweard (talk) 09:25, 6 Blōtmōnaþ 2012 (UTC)
Thank you very much. - Amgine (talk) 15:47, 6 Blōtmōnaþ 2012 (UTC)

Anglo-Saxon "orthographer"Adiht

Hello, I replied to your post on Ƿicipǣdia:Þorpes Ƿiella a while ago and I uploaded a very basic version of a sript I have been working on. Does it look good/work for you? I also have a more advanced version with options for marcons/accents, insular g, saving users' orthographic preferences and a few other things but it's not finished. Thank you, PiRSquared17 (talk) 15:37, 10 Blōtmōnaþ 2012 (UTC)

Sorry about the newfangled EnglishAdiht

I can't read more than a few words. Would you mind posting on my user talk page gcapp1959 and tell me about this Old English wikipedia? Who takes part here? Are you linguists? Does anyone still speak Old English anymore? Where can I hear an audio sample of it? gcapp1959. (and you can delete this message)


If we write it with a "k" ("Usbekistan"), it can be clear that it is not pronounced palatally.    Ƿes hāl!     22:44, 30 Mǣdmōnaþ 2013 (UTC)


Hello Hogweard, any idea where I can put Flocc:Eormengyld? And a second question: What would be the translation for University of Tübingen? --Eormengyld2013 (talk) 12:16, 19 Wēodmōnaþ 2013 (UTC)

What do you mean by "put"? Do you mean In which larger-category can you put it?
The translation for University of Tubingen might be something like "Tybingenes Eormengyld". Unfortunately, I cannot find any mentions of Tubingen in Bosworth and Toller, hence the loan word "Tybingen". An alternative translation for Tubingen based on the etymology of the word might be something like "Tuwingas", which would lead to "Tuwinga Eormengyld" for "University of Tubingen".    Ƿes hāl!     21:41, 21 Wēodmōnaþ 2013 (UTC)
Yes, I'm looking for something like en:Category:Education. Thanks for the help with Tübingen/Tybingen. "Tybingen" is probably the best solution since the city is located in Baden-Wyrttemberg. I've written a stub (Tybingen), hope you don't mind. Looking at Eormengyld Biobiwes (University of Bío-Bío): Should I move Oxnafordes Eormengield to Eormengyld Oxnafordes? --Eormengyld2013 (talk) 20:04, 23 Wēodmōnaþ 2013 (UTC)
I have created a Flocc:Leornung for it. Hogweard (talk) 17:25, 28 Wēodmōnaþ 2013 (UTC)
Thanks! --Eormengyld2013 (talk) 19:56, 28 Wēodmōnaþ 2013 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Stylistic and font optionsAdiht

Please review and give comments. PiRSquared17 (talk) 02:55, 1 Hāligmōnaþ 2013 (UTC)

Please also see Gesprec:Hēafodtramet#Project_Names.2C_Namespaces.2C_and_Other_Things. Specifically, should it be Ætēacmōtung or Ætēacmotung (note the vowel length)? PiRSquared17 (talk) 01:12, 18 Hāligmōnaþ 2013 (UTC)

My adminshipAdiht

Don't know what you're up to these-a-days, but my adminship expires soonish. Feel free to have your say on my call for re-election here.    Ƿes hāl!     22:23, 11 Winterfylleþ 2013 (UTC)


Hello, Hogweard.

Shouldn't Socrates be at Sōcratēs given those vowels' apparently being long in Ancient Greek?

Yeah, a search on the name on B-T didn't yield anything.

Do you know something I don't or were you simply too concerned with quickly snuffing out the vandalism the article started as?

Espreon (talk) 05:58, 2 Blōtmōnaþ 2013 (UTC)

Westernu AustraliaAdiht

Yo, I was able to find an example of "sūþerno" (I think it is fair enough to say that westerne/sūðerne/etc. can all be assumed to be declined alike) with a singular nominative feminine noun. See here for "Næglæs (cunæglæsse) hátte wyrt súþerno". On the same page, there are also examples of "sūðerne" with singular nominative feminine nouns. So precedent either way...    Ƿes hāl!     02:14, 19 Þrimilcemōnaþ 2014 (UTC)



I see that you were the one that created the article on Provence.

I couldn't find the spelling "Profense" anywhere and so I assume it's just an anglicization; I did find the spelling "Profentse" and its being used in actual text in an entry in B-T. And since the "ts" spelling reflects an older pronunciation of the placename, I think it would be better regardless.

What say you?

Espreon (talk) 00:57, 1 Wēodmōnaþ 2014 (UTC)

Hmm, where in Orosisus did you find that spelling, and in which copy? I looked through a reproduction of it (manually), and I could only find "Profentse" and "Profentsæ" (page 22 of the book/page 35 of the scan, last paragraph).
Espreon (talk) 00:03, 2 Wēodmōnaþ 2014 (UTC)


Hi. Thanks for your help in editing Ælmer the flying monk! Some parts were less obvious to translate than others, which is why I appreciated your level of knowledge and experience. However, may I request your final help in editing the few parts of the text remaining? ;-) --Couiros22 (talk) 15:22, 4 Wēodmōnaþ 2014 (UTC)

setton hiera handa þǣronAdiht

Hey, could you please point me to an instance of this idiom being used in OE, or a similar idiom? Unless it's historical, I think it would be better to use a more straightforward term.    Ƿes hāl!     22:22, 5 Wēodmōnaþ 2014 (UTC)

Ah, thanks. In that case, it is a fairly straightforward derivation from authentic OE "handseten"; and in the case that we needed it, I would offer no qualms; but considering the fully precedented usage of "handseten" in an equivalent and fully adequate phrase, I would rather use that:
  • "...saldan heora hondsetene ðisse gerǣdnesse."

   Ƿes hāl!     22:53, 10 Wēodmōnaþ 2014 (UTC)

Englisca Ingewinn and Englisc IngefeohtAdiht

Hi, just wondering if these two topics are the same and if the articles should be merged. Cheers. Delusion23 (talk) 11:39, 24 Gēolmōnaþ 2014 (UTC)


Are unaccented titles considered to be good redirects? I'm thinking of Æðelred Unræd, which I visited because I forgot the accent on the final æsc of Æðelred Unrǣd. Nyttend (talk) 01:13, 16 Se Æfterra Gēola 2015 (UTC)

Any redirect is good, if it helps send the user to the intended article.   Wodenhelm (Ȝesprec)   01:50, 16 Se Æfterra Gēola 2015 (UTC)
Yes, just as Wodenhelm says. Hogweard (talk) 10:42, 19 Se Æfterra Gēola 2015 (UTC)

Gehugode gereordasAdiht

Ƿes hal. Ic seo þe þu hafast þone flocc "Gehugode gereordas" geƿorht. Ac ic þence þætte hit sie betere to macienne flocc þe hatte "cræftlica spræca" ("artificial languages") for þy:

  • "Gehugod" ƿæs gebrocen to mænenne "minded, having particular thoughts", na "imaginary, conceived by the mind"
  • "gegeord" nis na ƿerlic nama - he is oþþe ƿiflic oþþe nahƿæðer
  • ƿe ær brucaþ "spræc" to secgenne "language" on gewrita namum and flocca namum. "Gereord" is full riht on grammatisccræfte, ac me lysteþ gestæððigness on geƿrita namum

Hƿæt sægsþ þu?    Ƿes hāl!     21:23, 24 Solmōnaþ 2015 (UTC)

Eala, ic andette þe "gereord" is betere ƿord þonne "spræc"; ac giet þence ic þe ƿe agaþ brucan "cræftlic" oþþe oðer ƿord and na "gehugod" for þy "gehugod" næfþ þæt rihte andgiet.    Ƿes hāl!     21:32, 25 Solmōnaþ 2015 (UTC)
Gea, cræftlic is til. Hogweard (talk) 23:07, 26 Solmōnaþ 2015 (UTC)


Hwæt mǣneþ "wrǣsness", and hwǣr is þæt word on Engliscum gewritum? Þū bruce hit on þǣm write Sūþerne Thila. Ic ne cann hit on BT findan.    Ƿes hāl!     23:31, 7 Ēastermōnaþ 2015 (UTC)

Translating the interface in your language, we need your helpAdiht

Hello Hogweard, thanks for working on this wiki in your language. We updated the list of priority translations and I write you to let you know. The language used by this wiki (or by you in your preferences) needs about 100 translations or less in the priority list. You're almost done!
To add or change translations for all wikis, please use, the MediaWiki localisation project.

Please register on if you didn't yet and then help complete priority translations (make sure to select your language in the language selector). With a couple hours' work or less, you can make sure that nearly all visitors see the wiki interface fully translated. Nemo 14:06, 26 Ēastermōnaþ 2015 (UTC)


Thanks for your help with Old English. Can you please translate this article to Old English if you have some time? I mean couple of words about it having in AngWiki would be great. Jaqeli (talk) 22:35, 2 Þrimilcemōnaþ 2015 (UTC)

Anything? Jaqeli (talk) 13:46, 6 Þrimilcemōnaþ 2015 (UTC)

Old-English words databaseAdiht

Hello Hogweard and happy new year!

Do you know by chance some good words dictionary database for Old-English? That would help a lot. Thanks. Jaqeli (mōtung) 15:18, 4 Se Æfterra Gēola 2016 (UTC)

Hey Hogweard, how would it be in Old English "Georgian monarchs family tree of X" (X being for example Kingdom of Kartli, Kakheti or Imereti)? Jaqeli

(mōtung) 14:28, 14 Se Æfterra Gēola 2016 (UTC)

Anglo-Saxon is missingAdiht

Hi. Could you provide a single sentence?

Anglo-Saxon is missing from this page:
More than 100 languages are now listed.
Thank you, Varlaam (mōtung) 05:43, 30 Se Æfterra Gēola 2016 (UTC)

Thanks very much for your help!
You prefer writing "Englisc", rather than using aesc?
The distinction is too subtle for me. Varlaam

(mōtung) 16:30, 3 Solmōnaþ 2016 (UTC)

Participate in the Ibero-American Culture Challenge!Adiht


Iberocoop has launched a translating contest to improve the content in other Wikipedia related to Ibero-American Culture.

We would love to have you on board :)

Please find the contest here:

Hugs!--Anna Torres (WMAR) (mōtung) 14:07, 10 Þrimilcemōnaþ 2016 (UTC)

Article requestAdiht

Hello Hogweard,

Could you help me create this article in Ænglisc Wikipedia? Just 3-5 lines would be very much appreciated.

Thanks. --Insignem laudem (mōtung) 10:01, 1 Mǣdmōnaþ 2016 (UTC)

Thank you very very much for your help Mr. Hogweard! --Insignem laudem (mōtung) 03:51, 24 Blōtmōnaþ 2016 (UTC)


Could you translate my userbox to Old English (please read the template's documentation!)? -XQV- (mōtung) 10:35, 2 Mǣdmōnaþ 2016 (UTC)


ello, could you translate Automatic refresh into Ænglisc? Thanks! :) -XQV- (mōtung) 14:19, 21 Winterfylleþ 2016 (UTC)

Wel hālAdiht

I saw you edited the Düsseldorf page that I made. I was wondering when somebody would do that because I wasn't sure if my translation was correct. I have a question about the use of "Burg" vs "Stede". I know both mean city and I used Stede but is their a difference between the two words?

Wario Toad 32 22 December 2016


I could translate into Old English when I comes to words but my grammar isn't very good so I might need someone to correct my grammar.

Answer from BirdofadozentidesAdiht

I don't know if you saw my answer on my page, so I'll write it also here.

I know about Ȝogh and I've never put it in the texts here, all I did was getting rid of w. I was thinking about using Insular G (ᵹ) that is available, but I didn't. I'm glad you have this option but honestly I failed to find it, guess it's only me.

The fact that 'w' is used in most of academic textsinstesd of Ƿynn is unfair, I don't see why Ƿynn is not supposed to be used in Old English texts. Yes, u and uu were also used, but Ƿynn was the letter of Old English alphabet and using it more than natuaral. I guess I won't be wrong if I say that almost all (if not all) modern Old English textbooks and programms are using 'w', as if Ƿynn would make text absolutely impossible to read. People just have to remember how Ƿynn looks like and become accustomed to it. 'P' and Ƿynn are written differently, epesially in electronic versions.

So you want me to stop changing orthography, right? And otherwise all my edits will reverted. Maybe we can agree about that? Maybe thare are some pages you absolutly don't want me change, and other pages could be changed? Some things like titles and some tablets I can't change anyway. Perhaps Modern English names written in Old English are not supposed to be changed, but I thought it'd be alright since they're written in Old English. I'd love to find this option you are talking about,but I can't find it, I don't know why.

--Birdofadozentides (mōtung) 14:24, 12 Solmōnaþ 2018 (UTC)

Birdofadozentides, can you see the option at the top of the page now? I fixed the code so it works as a gadget now. If not, try going to the gadgets pane of preferences and enabling it. Feel free to suggest changes. PiRSquared17 (mōtung) 14:19, 30 Sēremōnaþ 2018 (UTC)
Honestly, just enabling the Junicode-insular font should do what you want as well. PiRSquared17 (mōtung) 15:25, 30 Sēremōnaþ 2018 (UTC)
PiRSquared17, yes, I see it now, you've done a great job fixing it. Thank you. --Birdofadozentides (mōtung) 14:49, 4 Mǣdmōnaþ 2018 (UTC)

Dear Hogweard, sorry for bothering you after all these months. Thank you for not undoing my edits.

I'd like to talk about the W page. The ᵹƿ option is brillant, it's done for this site more than I ever could. It changes all w's to Ƿynn like a spell. But since w is the subject of the article, changing all w's makes it not right.

May I please get rid of w leaving this letter when it's needed? --Birdofadozentides (mōtung) 03:57, 10 Solmōnaþ 2019 (UTC)

Just a few correctionsAdiht

Hey, I thought it would be good to point out any grammatical or spelling corrections for your work, so you could take note for next time and improve your OE. Anyway, here're my corrections for your recent article "culmille":

  • "elleswīse" seems to be an unnecessarily neologism.
  • "gelic" most likely had a long vowel - "gelīc", just like the noun it is derived from (līc)
  • "gelīc" causes the dative case, so "gelic eorþgealla" should be "gelīc eorþgeallan"
  • "nēoðan" should probably have a short vowel ("neoðan"), being related, for example, to "nether" - the lengthening occurred during or leading into Middle English under open syllable vowel lengthening
  • neoðan is actually an adverb. Use the preposition "beneoðan" instead
  • little typo of "blotsman" as "botsman"
  • ðær should be þǣr
  • since "lǣssa" is talking about "culmille" (feminine), it should be "lǣsse"
  • "hē" refers to "culmille", so should be "hēo"
  • the attested form meaning "inch" is "ynce" and declensions thereof, rather than without the e. Also, when giving unit measurements in OE, it was normal to put the unit in the genetive. For historical examples: 1. Se weall Babilónes is fíftig elna brád, and twá hund elna heáh. 2. Wund ynces lang. 3. Seo cyrce wæs eahtahyrnede, an hund fota and twentig fota heah, six hund fota, and feowertig heo wæs ymbeganges.
  • "frūman" should have short vowel "fruman"

   Ƿes hāl!     09:46, 10 Mǣdmōnaþ 2019 (UTC)

Cyþþubox folcstedeAdiht

I will introduce a modification that should allow to enter custom value in field county in articles regarding English counties. Thank you for your appreciation of the work I have done.

Szczecinolog (mōtung) 08:16, 13 Hāligmōnaþ 2019 (UTC)


Ic þancie þē Kyūscū.-- 01:51, 17 Winterfylleþ 2019 (UTC)

a-- 01:22, 7 Blōtmōnaþ 2019 (UTC)


Hello. The other day I saw an article about one of the best rappers and musicians in history - Eminem. Can you put a link in Wikidata, well, and if you want to improve the article about him? Please do not delete the article. Moreover, relatively recently he performed at the Oscars of 2020 and released the eleventh album. 10:53, 24 Hrēþmōnaþ 2020 (UTC)

Articles needing translationAdiht

The articles Teletubbies, Peppa Pig, Mickey Mouse, Winnie the Pooh, Spider-Man, Hulk, and Wonder Woman need translation from English into Anglo-Saxon/Old English.

I looked at Wikipǣdia:Se Þorpes Wella but I don't know how to contact about this problem regarding the untranslated pages. These articles have needed translations since a year or so ago and they still are in English or only half translated/partially translated. I'm asking you because you seem to be the only active user who can speak Anglo-Saxon/Old English. 2600:1700:53F0:AD70:E0B9:F220:A78A:BAA4 22:26, 20 Sēremōnaþ 2020 (UTC)


Hi Hogweard, who is an Admin over on this wiki? Koncorde (mōtung) 14:39, 18 Wēodmōnaþ 2020 (UTC)

I don't actually know. Certainly not me. Is there a particular issue? Hogweard (mōtung) 14:42, 18 Wēodmōnaþ 2020 (UTC)

Stylistic changesAdiht

Hello Hogweard, I see you're still a bit active on here. I hope you're well.

I have made a request to PiRSquared17 that they modify the script selector switch for a more useful, tidier range of options. Perhaps you'd like to comment.

I also would like your reaction the following proposal: Get rid of macroned vowel length markers on this Wikipedia, just as palatalization markers have been eliminated. Just like palatalization markers, macrons for vowel length markers are ahistorical. Furthermore, they add a slight barrier and level of inconvenience of input. Furthermore, vowel length in Old English is easy to get wrong, and sometimes for a given word even genuinely difficult to guess what the historically correct vowel length in OE was.

It can easily be a mistake that is is impossible to make, simply by not using macrons.

Basically, macrons add a level of ahistorical and needless complication to writing Old English.

I note that the Latin Wikipedia has dispensed with need for macrons.

As for "but it helps learners of Old English": 'yes'; but my condolences to the person who thinks to learn Old English from this Wikipedia, especially in its current state, if ever. It would be very nice if one day the general quality of Old English written here was such that it would at least not give people erroneous habits by imitating it. One should learn Old English from historical Old English sources, overwhelmingly. Ang.wikipedia is a bad resource to learn Old English in its current state, and at best should only be an auxiliary resource.

With regards to "w", although it is also ahistorical in Old English (uu is not w), I am willing to support a policy against usage of wynn on source pages, for reasons: 1. it is likely inconvenient to type 2. w is the established majority norm here 3. we can, happily, *read* pages with wynn, thanks to PiRSquared's good work, at least 4. quality of mere grammar, which is grossly error ridden in general across this Wikipedia, and content quality, which is also broadly lacking so far, are much more important than typography at this point

In the long run, if hypothetically this is ever a healthy-enough wiki with a community, perhaps future editors will have their own thoughts on w/ƿ. But I feel like moving forward with other things is more important.

I wish to also strongly recommend a further implementation:

Always document all neologisms on the selfsame page that they are used on

It's broadly undesirable to be making neologisms as a Wikimedia project in the first place. However, if it is found necessary, we should be at least entirely transparent and meticulous in documenting it.

In contributions I've previously made, I have done as much on the talk page. However, it may be more sensible to have a standard template on the article itself, with a notice of neologism usage, and an expandable list of neologisms with MnE translations. However, it seems to me no one else did this consistently

You will likely be aware of the furore recently surrounding widespread inauthenticity on the Scots Wikipedia. Every complaint made about it, could also be made rightly about ang.wikipedia. I really wish it weren't like that.

I don't intend to get back into editing in a major way as previously - I became very jaded with wading through the mass of countless grammar errors. But I hope to maintain a more sustainable level of input going forward, to get this place crisp and something to be proud of. As it stands, it is generally a linguistically low-quality representation of Old English.

Thanks in advance for your attention and consideration. I hope I don't come across as unduly brusque. -- Gottistgut -- Ƿes hāl! 10:52, 28 Wēodmōnaþ 2020 (UTC)

Further stylistic changesAdiht

Since last messaging you, 2 further stylistic changes have occurred to me:

1. Change "computer imperatives" ("log in" = "log me in, computer"; "exit" = "exit the program/window, computer"), which we currently have in the imperative, to normal 2nd person singular imperatives. This is mostly a concern for translation of the interface, and would probably be up to me to implement the change. My rational for this being desirable is: There is no evidence that infinitives were ever used Old English in a stand-alone manner, let alone for giving instructions. The current usage of infinitive therefore constitutes invention of an entirely novel grammar feature. Although a number of modern languages use infinitive for computer imperative, that is a feature of those particular modern languages which Old English does not have. As for using standard 2nd person sg imperative for computer imperative, a number of modern languages do use that, but also, as I showed already, it makes sense to regard a computer you are giving command to as "you". Even native Old English speakers would understand this analogy, sometimes in literature having inanimate objects speaking in the first person (which can readily be converted into the second person), for example, the cross in "Dream of the Rood".

2. Use Roman numerals instead of Arabic numerals for non-mathematical purposes. Arabic numerals are the established norm on this Wikipedia, so there is that in favour of using them. However, outside of mathematics, Arabic numerals have not much inherent advantage over Roman numerals. For example, in personal titles, dates, and chapter enumeration, Roman numerals are perfectly fine. I therefore propose that Roman numerals be used in all cases except mathematics, where Arabic numerals have considerable inherent advantage. This would help add an authentic historical flavour to articles.

Thanks for your attention.

-- Gottistgut -- Ƿes hāl! 00:20, 30 Wēodmōnaþ 2020 (UTC)

I have searched up in the corpus, and it seems that both non-deductive and deductive systems have considerable attestation. Consider:
  • 13 instances of iv in corpus vs 438 instances of iiii
  • 128 instances of ix, vs 83 of viiii
  • 170 instances of xl in corpus vs 2 of xxxx
  • 10 instances of xc vs 1 of lxxxx
  • 0 instances of cd vs 19 of cccc
  • 0 instances of cm vs 18 intances of dcccc

Out of these examples, 321 are deductive vs 561 non-deductive. One suspects that the non-deductive are earlier, but this comparison does establish that both systems are well-attested in the OE corpus. On a balance, considering modern audiences are more familiar with the deductive system, and it is well-attested in OE, I am thinking to use the deductive system. What do you think?

Also, I have been playing around with bysen:niwuword, to try and develop a nice template in which to insert new words. I was originally thinking to put it at the top of a page. However, the disadvantage is that table-collapse doesn't work on mobile browsers, so phone users looking a big article on a modern topic with lots of neologisms would have to scroll past a long list of neologisms before getting to the article. It doesn't seem that sensible.

An alternative approach I've thought up, is to include a dedicated "Niwu word" section using conventional list formatting, to be placed just before the "fruman" section. This would be easy enough for any marginally literate OE readier to notice and understand. It could include a template at the top if the segment, or at the top of the page, merely providing notice that the article contains new words.

While putting a little notice at the top of the page would increase awareness of it, which is desirable, it would also be visual clutter for the head of the article. I am thinking that having a single notice of the practice on Heafodtramet, in MnE and OE; and then include a short notice template at the top of the "Niwu word" section within an article, which would also include a "niwu word" category, so all articles which used niwu word would be easily identifiable. That's my preferred solution. What do you think?

-- Gottistgut -- Ƿes hāl! 02:06, 1 Hāligmōnaþ 2020 (UTC)


Okay, that's great, thanks. No, I don't have examples of higher numbers off the cuff. There are solutions available for Roman Numerals in general - I don't know which if any were used in OE corpus. -- Gottistgut -- Ƿes hāl! 18:43, 8 Hāligmōnaþ 2020 (UTC)

Python page converterAdiht

I've written a quick and easy Python program to convert text pages to macronless, wynnless, ċġ yogh-less text.

I don't know how familiar you are with using that stuff, but it's fairly easy to use. I would like to get a bot set up to convert all the pages automatically, but that'll take a bit of investment on my half, and I'm currently a bit busy, so I can't promise that for a wee while yet. Anyway, if you have Python installed, you can run my Python program, and it'll do multiple find-and replaces in one go, so you don't have to do each one manually.

If you are interested, I can get the code to you, and explain how to use it. If you need help installing Python, I guess just google "how to install Python on x operating system", or something. Just let me know.

Also, I see some of my changes on the for Wikipedia have come through. I might have missed some messages, or otherwise the translation was grabbed and exported to Wikimedia while I was halfway through, so you can only see some of the changes currently. I'll go back to make sure I've de-macronized it all, but it should eventually update so that the interface is entirely macron-free.

I also took the liberty, to change "reccing" ("account") to "wīsbōc" (see on Bosworth and Toller). Conceptually, I think that's what "reccing" was aiming for - like "record (book)"; but "reccing" means "account" in the sense of "story", so it's not really appropriate. "Wīsbōc" for "record book" seems not too bad - it accumulates data around your actions and activity. So accounts truly are a "record book" of sorts.

-- Gottistgut -- Ƿes hāl! 09:59, 21 Haligmonað 2020 (UTC)

It's beyond me. The only pythons I know about are snakes and Monty. I'll leave it to you. In the meantime I have a spreadsheet with macro that should allow me to move the calendar pages to non-macro versions so they will start reappearing. I should then (eventually) redo the macros point ahead and back, now I have learnt more MediaWiki codes than I knew when I first wrote them.Hogweard (motung) 21:05, 21 Haligmonað 2020 (UTC)

New word documentationAdiht

See Wæterþoðer for a good example of neologism documentation I've just tidied up, with bysen:niwuword at the top of the list. I think it should be put just above "fruman". Going forward, I think all articles which contain new words, should use that documentation. -- Gottistgut -- Ƿes hāl! 23:32, 23 Haligmonað 2020 (UTC)

Regarding date formatAdiht

I can say with confidence that there are no examples in the entire Toronto corpus, of any Old English-language dates being given with the month in nominative such as "10 Winterfylleð". On the other hand, there are these examples: "þæt is se forma dæg on Martio" "On þam oðrum monðe, þe we Aprilis hatað, se teoþa dæg is..." "On Iulius se þreotteoða..."

These all belong to a short text on the appropriate days to bloodlet. Note that in the third example, "dæg" is only dropped after it has already been used several times, although one could argue that date formats are perfectly obvious to read without the day, and "dæg" is not grammatically required - you can just use the ordinal number substantively; BUT, the vast majority of historical examples include "dæg" - it would be a grammatically fine stylistic innovation to drop the "dæg". This fully verifies the "se Xa dæg on MONTH" construction, which would be grammatical anyway, if not idiomatic.

We also find these examples from Alfric:

"Se eahtateoða dæg þæs monðes þe we hatað martius þone ge hatað hlyda wæs se forma dæg þyssere worulde. " "he ða mid þam tige his gast ageaf. on þam þreotteoþan dæge þises monðes."

We also find many such examples in translations of certain Biblical books.

And examples from other authors:

"þa hine mon slog þy fiftan dæge Agustus monðes."

"On þone fif and twentigoðan dæg þæs monðes byð sancte Lucian tyd." "On þone XXXan dæg þæs monðes bið þæs bisceopes gemynd sancti Felicis" (over 100 additional examples in the exact same format as the one immediately above, from the same text: the Old English Martyrology)

This leads me to the conclusion that:

The most succinct grammatically correct and attested Anglicized date format is: "(þy) Xan (dæge) Xmonðes"

Or: "on þone X dæg Xmonðes" "(se) Xa (dæg) Xmonðes", depending on required case.

And that's what I'd find most desirable, but ofc "on þone X dæg Xmonðes" is also perfectly fine". Because the definitive article doesn't tend to be included in article titles, I'd be comfortable to omit the leading "se" in article titles for dates. I would suggest e.g. "(X/10)a (dæg) Winterfylleðes" for article titles.

Note that most examples don't have a declensional suffix for dates where the number is given in Roman numerals, but such examples do exist, and I think the suffix improves readability and speed to distinguish ordinals from cardinals.

I think that addresses your question. -- Gottistgut -- Ƿes hāl! 22:37, 19 Winterfylleð 2020 (UTC)

Hey Hogweard, there are no examples in corpus of an unelided *monaðes form. As such, opt for the monðes form, which has over 200 attestations, and we can safely assume was the overwhelmingly normal option. I am unsure if þ is used on Metawiki, I'll check on the weekend. -- Gottistgut -- Ƿes hāl! 02:41, 22 Winterfylleð 2020 (UTC)