Mōtung:Hēafodsīde/Hord 4

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Ūre betƿuxƿiki nama, "Anglo-Saxon" oþþe "Ænglisc"?Adiht


Ȝif man behielde ǣniȝe Ƿikipǣdiasīde, hē Anglo-Saxon sēo on þǣm betƿuxƿikihlenċum. Sculon ƿē Ƿikimedia āscian tō hƿeorfenne Anglo-Saxon into Ænglisc? Eall ōðer sprǣċa habbaþ hiera mōdorsprǣċeƿord, ȝeliċ English, Deutsch, Français, and sƿā forþ, ac man ūs Anglo-Saxon ȝeaf.

Iċ understande þæt hīe ūs Anglo-Saxon ȝeaf forþǣm Englisc tō ȝeliċ þæt ƿord English biþ, ac magon ƿē Ænglisc brūcan, ne Englisc, sƿā þæt biþ hit sundor fram English– efne on betƿuxƿikian. Teohhiaþ Deutsch, Deitsch, Düütsch; ƿē scoldon English, Ænglisc habbaþ.

— ᚹᚩᛞᛖᚾᚻᛖᛚᛗ 16:54, 12 Ēastermōnaþ 2010 (UTC)

Ic þence þæt we "Ænglisc/Englisc" to þæm betweoxwikihlencum habban scoldon. Willcume ic þec on míne brúcendsídan! 08:59, 16 Ēastermōnaþ 2010 (UTC)
Iċ ƿrāt bidd hēr for "Ænglisc". — ᚹᚩᛞᛖᚾᚻᛖᛚᛗ (ȝespreċ) 08:12, 21 Ēastermōnaþ 2010 (UTC)
And iċ ēac ƿrāt bidd on Bugzilla, sƿā man mē rēd. — ᚹᚩᛞᛖᚾᚻᛖᛚᛗ (ȝespreċ) 20:26, 21 Ēastermōnaþ 2010 (UTC)

WOOHOO! Man mē ƿrāt bȳ email mid:

Comment #2 from R. S. <(email fornōm)@gmail.com> 2010-04-22 20:24:58 UTC ---
Changed with r65441.
Will go live with the next software sync.

Þis is gōd spell :D — ᚹᚩᛞᛖᚾᚻᛖᛚᛗ (ȝespreċ) 21:22, 22 Ēastermōnaþ 2010 (UTC)

When is this software sync going to happen? Hayden120 08:20, 29 Sēremōnaþ 2010 (UTC)
Dunno. I think Wodenhelm's tried pulling a few strings, but no active worker on here who speaks Anglo-Saxon actually has much power. I'll go ask the moderator. Say, how're you coming along with Old English? Willcume ic þec on míne brúcendsídan! 04:56, 30 Sēremōnaþ 2010 (UTC)
Who speaks my name, to awaken me from my slumber? Nah lol, I did put it in as a bug report on the MediaWiki software, and that was the last message I've heard of it. So at the least, it's been seen and acknowledged by someone. Now, how often they update their software on their servers, I have no idear. — ᚹᚩᛞᛖᚾᚻᛖᛚᛗ (ᚷᛖᛋᛈᚱᛖᚳ) 13:42, 30 Sēremōnaþ 2010 (UTC)
@Gottistgut: Thanks for asking :). I'm studying little bits on and off, just for fun. I'm learning multiple languages, and I suppose I'm "flirting" with this one. I'm interested in Old English mostly because I'm interested in the history of English; writing or conversing with it is secondary. Cheers, Hayden120 10:43, 14 Mǣdmōnaþ 2010 (UTC)

Check it out. — ᚹᚩᛞᛖᚾᚻᛖᛚᛗ (ᚷᛖᛋᛈᚱᛖᚳ) 03:43, 4 Hāligmōnaþ 2010 (UTC)

Forsƿīðe ȝōd! Gott wisst 05:40, 4 Hāligmōnaþ 2010 (UTC)

NWTa healdungAdiht

Ic þence þæt mann oþþe menn moten animan þing þe sind fulfyled of þæm tramente (to bysne "gay, rabbit, model, cell") and þæt mann mote settan þæt gecorene word on riht dæl of "hu segce ic". Þus si "NWT" læs ungereclic. Hwæt þencaþ ge þærymb? Willcume ic þec on míne brúcendsídan! 09:04, 16 Ēastermōnaþ 2010 (UTC)

I think that someone or some people should remove things which are resolved from the page and put the chosen word on the correct part of "hu secge ic". That way "NWT" will be less untidy. What do you guys think? Willcume ic þec on míne brúcendsídan! 08:49, 17 Ēastermōnaþ 2010 (UTC)
Ȝēa iċ understōde, sāriȝ for ne andsƿariende. iċ sceal þæt dōn latera tōniht. — ᚹᚩᛞᛖᚾᚻᛖᛚᛗ (ȝespreċ) 15:40, 17 Ēastermōnaþ 2010 (UTC)
Dōn.ᚹᚩᛞᛖᚾᚻᛖᛚᛗ (ȝespreċ) 08:12, 21 Ēastermōnaþ 2010 (UTC)

Þēodliċ ƿiþ Rīċisc for "national"Adiht

Nū brūce iċ "þēodliċ" on fōtballtēama ȝeƿritum, ac hit mæȝ bēon þæt sculde iċ "rīċisc" brūcan, sƿā man brȳcþ "rīċe" for "nation/country/state," and "þēod" for "nation/tribe/a people" (ȝeliċ "the Cherokee nation"). Ȝē þyncþ "rīċisc" gōd? — ᚹᚩᛞᛖᚾᚻᛖᛚᛗ (ȝespreċ) 07:04, 21 Ēastermōnaþ 2010 (UTC)

Me þynceþ "ricisc" god. Willcume ic þec on míne brúcendsídan! 07:40, 21 Ēastermōnaþ 2010 (UTC)
Dōn.ᚹᚩᛞᛖᚾᚻᛖᛚᛗ (ȝespreċ) 08:12, 21 Ēastermōnaþ 2010 (UTC)

Sweghordlicu gewrituAdiht

Weorðe mann wraþ gif ic sette sweghordlice rædunge on missenlicum godum gewritum mid to læstan 2,000 worda (eowunga ne scoldon swelc sweghord niwod ful oft wesan - þæs ne scoldon hi huru riht æfter þæm gewritum wesan)?
Would anyone get ticked if I were to upload audio readings of various good articles with at least 2,000 words (obviously such audio recordings would not be updated very often - therefore they would not necessarily be accurate according to the article)?

Willcume ic þec on míne brúcendsídan! 03:55, 26 Ēastermōnaþ 2010 (UTC)

Ȝif þū mæȝe hit rihte dōn, ȝeliċ nān "ey-ohm" for "eom" (ugh...), and ȝif ƿite þū ċ fram c hƿonne man ne ƿrīte ċ... (and, in hƿelċem underrīċe ƿunast þū?) — ᚹᚩᛞᛖᚾᚻᛖᛚᛗ (ȝespreċ) 04:07, 26 Ēastermōnaþ 2010 (UTC)
I would put down these standards for pronunciation:
  • One can choose between palatalised and non-palatalised (because I don't think anyone doubts that, at one point in its history, OE had not suffered palatalisation, at least dialectally - otherwise they might have established a writing system which more reflected palatalisation)
    • UNLESS the author of the article specifically distinguishes palatalisation.
    • And one can choose whether or not to do palatal levelling or not (e.g. they can chose to say "maniyum" (for "manigum") (levelled) or "manigum" (not levelled)).
  • One can choose whether or not to pronounce so-called "palatal diphthongisation" (because it is not certain whether or not it was an actual phonetic occurrence or just an orthographical distinguishing - I personally think that is was an actual phonetic occurrence, but that it was not well-fulfilled, and that it was not actually "palatal-caused" but a more universal diphthongisation; BECAUSE: 1) it "happened" not only after palatals ("tīen"); 2) it seemingly has modern-day "evidence" (though few and far between) (else how did we get the word "yard" and the word "yarn" from words which were historically back-vowels, and why do we have "-head" in god-head at all, rather than "-hood", and why do we have both "year" as well as the non-diphthongised version "yore"; 3) diphthongs which we have good reason to believe existed did occasionally develop according to their second element, rather than the more common first element ("shoot" not "sheet" and "sword" not "swerd").
  • One should pronounce all diphthongs as one syllable.
  • Long vowels and consonants should be distinguished from short ones with more length.
    • EXCEPT final long consonants, which became short in later OE ("man(n)", "gied(d)") - one should then go according to the length used by the author of the article
  • One must be CONSISTENT to whatever options they choose.

Hwæt þecnaþ ge? Willcume ic þec on míne brúcendsídan! 04:36, 26 Ēastermōnaþ 2010 (UTC)

Eh, mē þyncþ þū gǣst tō feorr fore þæt ƿeorc. Ƿē þurfaþ ȝiet mā ȝeƿritu. And hƿȳ ne brȳcst þū þā rihtstafas ƿ and ȝ? — ᚹᚩᛞᛖᚾᚻᛖᛚᛗ (ȝespreċ) 04:46, 26 Ēastermōnaþ 2010 (UTC)
For þæm þe hit is me slawre. Ic giet ne cann writan "yogh" and "wynn" butan ic slea "copy" and "paste". Willcume ic þec on míne brúcendsídan! 04:50, 26 Ēastermōnaþ 2010 (UTC)
Ah. Ƿilt þū for mē to macienne Angelseaxisc cǣȝbord for þē to brūcenne? Iċ ne hæbbe oþþe brūce Windows (iċ brūce beȝen Mac OS X and Linux Mint) ac iċ mæȝ mīnan frēondes Windows spearcatella āborgian. — ᚹᚩᛞᛖᚾᚻᛖᛚᛗ (ᚷᛖᛋᛈᚱᛖᚳ) 09:11, 27 Ēastermōnaþ 2010 (UTC)
Eala... Ic wolde, ac heo (seo spearcatelle) is minra cennenda, and for þæm nille ic hie andwendan... Anlice for þæm hi ær habbaþ "short-cut keys" geseted, þe cuðon genettian ænigne cægbord þe ic sette ("upload"). Ic hæbbe ær "microsoft keyboard layout creator 1.4" gefangen, ac ic nat þa "short-cut keys" þe sind ær geseted on þisre spearcatellan - for þæm ne cann ic self swa don. Þeaf gif ic wite þa "short-cut" cæga, gelice sona cuðe ic self settan cæggesetednessa ("key-combinations") to "yogh"e and "wynn"e. Do you know how to view whatever tells one what the keyboard short-cuts are on Windows? I forgot. Willcume ic þec on míne brúcendsídan! 09:27, 27 Ēastermōnaþ 2010 (UTC)
On a different note, it will be a short while before I upload any recordings of articles - getting the pronunciation right/consistent throughout can be hard... I'd like to do a recording of "Eastrice" - a substantial article, I think - first.Willcume ic þec on míne brúcendsídan! 09:30, 27 Ēastermōnaþ 2010 (UTC)
Mǣnst þū þā ALT-codes? Start > Programs > Accessories > System Tools > Character Map (iċ belīefe...) — ᚹᚩᛞᛖᚾᚻᛖᛚᛗ (ᚷᛖᛋᛈᚱᛖᚳ) 09:32, 27 Ēastermōnaþ 2010 (UTC)
AH, no, found that... But doesn't give alt codes, only the Unicode codes... The alt codes on this computer are limited to 252... I meant the thing where you assign certain functions to key shortcuts (e.g. you might assign "ctrl+e" to exit a window). It could cause some annoying results if I confused codes for writing characters with these... So I'm wanting to know how to see these so I don't confuse the key combinations... Willcume ic þec on míne brúcendsídan! 09:46, 27 Ēastermōnaþ 2010 (UTC)
Never mind, ic hæbbe þæt getæl of "hātcǣga" gefunden. Þū mōst sēon mec ādihtan mid "yogh/wynn" hraðe hwīlum. Willcume ic þec on míne brúcendsídan! 09:53, 27 Ēastermōnaþ 2010 (UTC)

And, þū bist riht ymbe scēotan ƿeorðende shoot, ac þis is forþǣm þæt ƿord ne ēo hæfþ, ac sce-ōt on stede. Bȳ þisse, iċ mǣne hū būton e, sc = sk, ac mid e, sc = sh. Ȝif man hit ȝeliċ scotan ƿrite, þonne hit "skotan" sīe. Þus, scēotan = shōtan, and scōtan = skōtan. — ᚹᚩᛞᛖᚾᚻᛖᛚᛗ (ᚷᛖᛋᛈᚱᛖᚳ) 12:17, 27 Ēastermōnaþ 2010 (UTC)

Bad example - consider: "scēotan" was in exactly the same vowel series as "frēosan" (which developed as "freeze") - both of them developed from a diphthong which was in Gothic "iu" ("skiutan") and OHG "io" ("sciotan"). Consider also "hrēowan" (which was in the same vowel series as "frēosan, cēosan, scēotan"), which developed into modern "rue" (with the same sound as "scēotan" and "cēosan" later developed - even though there is no orthographical reason one could ever supply for there needing to be a "silent" "e" there). Again, consider "sweord" (also "weorc") - we know that the "e" was pronounced because that was originally there (cf. German "Schwert", "Werk"), yet it developed according to the "o" (which was only ever there because of breaking). Again, consider that multiple words, not just words with palatalized consonants, had this vowel change according to OE writing - and therefore it cannot be explained well as an "orthographical" convention because there was no need for such a convention in these other wors - consider "heofig", "tīen", etc. I think it safer to say that an irregularity developed in the modern - under the pressure of standardization and dialect mixing. Willcume ic þec on míne brúcendsídan! 22:22, 27 Ēastermōnaþ 2010 (UTC)
By "modern" I mean post-unison England (but especially post-Norman invasion). Willcume ic þec on míne brúcendsídan! 00:12, 28 Ēastermōnaþ 2010 (UTC)

transliteration or transcription for proper names?Adiht

What are the standards? (Are there standards?) I've seen "Elisabeþ" on the one hand... And the the other hand "Osama" (only once have I seen it) (which could be read according to OE orthography like "Ozama" - perhaps undesirable?). Willcume ic þec on míne brúcendsídan! 08:36, 27 Ēastermōnaþ 2010 (UTC)

Brūc dōm. Ac bȳ mē, ȝif se nama sīe Ƿestern, āƿend hine ontō Englisce, and ȝif ne, þonne ne āƿend. Sum biþ sƿær, ȝeliċ "Jane Grey," ƿē magon "Grey" ontō Grǣȝ āƿendan, ac hū sceal "Jane" bēon cūþ sƿā? — ᚹᚩᛞᛖᚾᚻᛖᛚᛗ (ᚷᛖᛋᛈᚱᛖᚳ) 09:08, 27 Ēastermōnaþ 2010 (UTC)


Iċ macode (unofficial) Ƿikispell for ūs, sƿā ƿē ne habbaþ ƿǣr Ƿikispell on Ƿikimedian. Man mæȝ hit hēr findan, and his fyrst ȝeƿrit is hēr, ymbe elpendas þe magon spreċan, āƿended fram NewScientist. — ᚹᚩᛞᛖᚾᚻᛖᛚᛗ (ᚷᛖᛋᛈᚱᛖᚳ) 11:20, 27 Ēastermōnaþ 2010 (UTC)


Ao. 891 Earnulf cyning gefeaht with thæm rædehere ær tha scipu comon mid Eastfrancum and Seaxum and Bægerum and hine geflymde: Reckon where I've got it from (sorry, my Anglosaxon is a bit rusty ;-)): From Schmeller's Bavarian Dictionary! So, would you please perhaps add "Bavaria" (in the sense of the Bavarian Wikipedia (Bavarian) to your list of countries? Hellsepp 19:04, 1 Þrimilcemōnaþ 2010 (UTC)

Siċorliċ. Fyrmest, ƿē þurfaþ ȝeƿrit ymbe Bæȝere, þonne ēaciaþ ƿē hit to ūre rīċeȝetale. — ᚹᚩᛞᛖᚾᚻᛖᛚᛗ (ᚷᛖᛋᛈᚱᛖᚳ) 21:39, 1 Þrimilcemōnaþ 2010 (UTC)

Development WikiraceAdiht

I been thinking about it a little now, and I reckon it would be cool to challenge a another language's version of Wikipedia to a race to a certain number of articles. As far as I can see, the Sanskrit Wikipedia looks about a good match for us (2,010 articles)... What think yourselves? Willcume ic þec on míne brúcendsídan! 03:21, 5 Þrimilcemōnaþ 2010 (UTC)

& ƿiþ ⁊Adiht

Ȝif ȝē mæȝen þone Engliscan "and" stæf sēon, þonne sceoldon ƿē hine brūcan on stede "&". (ȝeliċ "Lagu ⁊ Friþ" for "Law & Order") — ᚹᚩᛞᛖᚾᚻᛖᛚᛗ (ᚷᛖᛋᛈᚱᛖᚳ) 02:21, 6 Þrimilcemōnaþ 2010 (UTC)

Eala, "Law & Order" is anlic þing, and for þæm þence ic þæt ænig gewrit be him scolde "&" brucan, ac ic oft sette hlence þe hæfþ standendne wir ("vertical bar" "|") mid Niwengliscum naman ætforan wir and Engliscre awendunge æfter him (gelic þissum: [[America's Cup|American Cuppe]] oþþe [[Law & Order|Lagu ⁊ Friþ]]. Ic eac oft bruce þa awendunge þæs frumlican naman on gewrite and on gewunelicre spræce, ac ic a hate þæt gewrit æfter his naman on þære frumlican spræce (buton þær hit wæs gifen Engliscne naman - þe is swiðe anlic - ic næbbe nawiht gelic þæm na giet gefunden). Willcume ic þec on míne brúcendsídan! 03:28, 6 Þrimilcemōnaþ 2010 (UTC)
Ȝēa. Sƿā sceolon ƿē brūcan for Englisce, and & brūcan for Nīƿum Englisce? (Ōhthere ⁊ Ƿulfstān, Law & Order) — ᚹᚩᛞᛖᚾᚻᛖᛚᛗ (ᚷᛖᛋᛈᚱᛖᚳ) 03:37, 6 Þrimilcemōnaþ 2010 (UTC)
Giese, me þynceþ þæt god. Willcume ic þec on míne brúcendsídan! 03:45, 6 Þrimilcemōnaþ 2010 (UTC)

Niwu gesetednessAdiht

Should we establish a policy by which one should use a template (yet to be made) which would say something like, "Þis gewrit brycþ niwu word; seoh his gemot to seonne heora Niwengliscan efenweorþ" and place any new words in an alphabetical list with their Modern English equivalents in a section of that page's talk page which would not be deleted with talk page clean-up? Willcume ic þec on míne brúcendsídan! 03:39, 6 Þrimilcemōnaþ 2010 (UTC)

Mē līċaþ se þes þanc, ac ƿē ne þurfaþ bysene for him. Nēah eallu ȝeƿritu brūcaþ sum nīƿu ƿord. Sēo sīde Perfume hæfþ nīƿa ƿorda glēsinge on hire ȝespreċsīdan. — ᚹᚩᛞᛖᚾᚻᛖᛚᛗ (ᚷᛖᛋᛈᚱᛖᚳ) 03:44, 6 Þrimilcemōnaþ 2010 (UTC)
Soþlice, ac niwcumendas ne mihton þis cnawan. For þæm þence ic þæt we þurfen bysen. Willcume ic þec on míne brúcendsídan! 03:47, 6 Þrimilcemōnaþ 2010 (UTC)

writing of places and addressesAdiht

I've seen a lot of "smaller place, larger place, largest place" place name writing... This was not, to the best of my knowledge (I'll drop it if someone can prove myself wrong), an OE practice; and to do so in modern usage is actually to add to the grammar of OE. I just use prepositions and the genitive case... Eala, hwæt andswariaþ ge? Willcume ic þec on míne brúcendsídan! 06:45, 11 Þrimilcemōnaþ 2010 (UTC)

Guilty as charged. It is the default mechanism when there is no more to say about a place. If you can think of a better way to talk of a town which is indeed "the biggest town on the Isle of Wight" (or wherever) then I'm all ears. If it is not authentic usage then I'd sooner drop it but for some places it is the only thing one can say about them! Hogweard 12:22, 11 Þrimilcemōnaþ 2010 (UTC)
G, Bisena? Iċ ne understande hƿæt þū mǣnst. — ᚹᚩᛞᛖᚾᚻᛖᛚᛗ (ᚷᛖᛋᛈᚱᛖᚳ) 16:33, 11 Þrimilcemōnaþ 2010 (UTC)
Yes, that does need a more specific example... I may not have conveyed my intended meaning clearly. I mean the Modern English (and modern many other languages, too) address format (that is, showing that one place is within another place simply by the use of commas in writing and a small pause in speech). For example, "I live at number 8, Etc. Street, Blah-blah Suburb, All-the-rest City, Anythingland". I have a feeling that an Anglo-Saxon would say something more like: "Ic wunie be þǣm eahtoðan botle on Etcstræte, in Blahblahunderburge, in Eallþaoðerburge Awihtlandes". Of course, that is awkward... But, I think, more authentic. Willcume ic þec on míne brúcendsídan! 02:35, 12 Þrimilcemōnaþ 2010 (UTC)
Mē þynċþ hit þæt þis nis sprǣċ þing, ac efne mōd (style). — ᚹᚩᛞᛖᚾᚻᛖᛚᛗ (ᚷᛖᛋᛈᚱᛖᚳ) 03:35, 12 Þrimilcemōnaþ 2010 (UTC)
Eala, ne swa. It is to do with grammar because it is generally reflected in speech and not just treated as an abbreviation, and it is usage which mucks around with cases and prepositions - it becomes a grammar thing when it is meant to be a part of speech. Willcume ic þec on míne brúcendsídan! 04:36, 12 Þrimilcemōnaþ 2010 (UTC)
Hū dōþ ōðra Þēodisca sprǣċa? — ᚹᚩᛞᛖᚾᚻᛖᛚᛗ (ᚷᛖᛋᛈᚱᛖᚳ) 04:45, 12 Þrimilcemōnaþ 2010 (UTC)
Swelce wise (þæt is, seo wise þe ic secge ne wesan Englisc) is gebrocen on þære stowa namena writunge (ne huru on gewunelicre spræce, soþlice... ac sind swelc gewritu gebrocen to "tags" on ærendbocum and oðrum gelicum nyttum) on manigum (eallum?) niwum Germaniscum spræcum. Þeah, Englisc nis niwe oþþe niwlic, is hit? Ne is hit yfel to brucenne foresetednessa to eowienne þæt an stow licge on oðerre stowe... Willcume ic þec on míne brúcendsídan! 05:36, 12 Þrimilcemōnaþ 2010 (UTC)
I think User:Gottistgut has a good point here. Instead of Sigen iernþ þurh Paris, Francland an Englisc text would say ... Paris, Franca burg or ... Paris on Francum
In article names the comma needs watching too, so instead of "Sūþtun, Defenascīr", we ought to have "Sūþtun (on Defenum)". Hogweard 12:14, 12 Þrimilcemōnaþ 2010 (UTC)

It seems to be an issue of style in writing, rather than that of language/speech/what makes sense linguistically; consider the strange format that bible verses are divided up into. In natural speech, one would say "The first verse of the second chapter" or whatever, but it would seem silly to actually write it out that way. It's just a method of notation, some languages use the comma in writing, some dont. Swedish uses it. It seems trivial at best. We have articles on (for example) "King Henry VIII," not "King Henry the Eighth". — ᚹᚩᛞᛖᚾᚻᛖᛚᛗ (ᚷᛖᛋᛈᚱᛖᚳ) 17:18, 12 Þrimilcemōnaþ 2010 (UTC)

Perhaps a style of labeling, but in general usage it is highly idiomatic, especially to Anglo-Saxon, where a native would hear a string of names, one after the other, and all in the nominative case (showing the role of subject or predicate nominative of some kind... not location) or accusative (showing direct object or duration of length or time); and perhaps, at best, at the end of it, he would say "Eala, hwelcre stowe wilt þu secgan be?" It is more than just notation because it is directly tied in with and reflected in speech, whereas the markings of chapters and verses add no actual meaning to the text whatsoever. Indeed, some languages don't (use the comma to show location). Any one grammar point in a language can seem trivial to the entirety of the language, but it is partly the grammar that defines a language. King Henry VIII is an abbreviation not reflected by speech... also, we have good evidence that ordinal numbers were abbreviated like that ("Henry VIII") in OE times ("...þy xxii geara his rices..."). And it doesn't actually hurt to use prepositions... Willcume ic þec on míne brúcendsídan! 04:30, 13 Þrimilcemōnaþ 2010 (UTC)

Ƿæru cƿidemearcaAdiht

Mē þynċþ sceoldon ƿē ƿæra cƿidemearca brūcan, “ ”, þonne tȳpƿrītere cƿidemearca, " ". Ac, efne on ȝeƿrita sīdan. Teohhiaþ ūre tōdāl, ,. Biþ þās ēoƿ ēaðe to ƿrītenne on ēoƿerum cǣȝbordum? — ᚹᚩᛞᛖᚾᚻᛖᛚᛗ (ᚷᛖᛋᛈᚱᛖᚳ) 20:34, 11 Þrimilcemōnaþ 2010 (UTC)

Ic bruce " for þæm þe hit is on minum cægborde. Willcume ic þec on míne brúcendsídan! 02:30, 12 Þrimilcemōnaþ 2010 (UTC)
Iċ ēac, ac iċ sēah on en.wikipedia hƿǣr mann cƿæþ þæt sceoldon ƿē “ ” brūcan forðǣm hit mā riht biþ, and iċ þōhte ymbe him, and... hē ƿæs riht. Gōd for ūs, ƿē ne brūcaþ hīe oft. Mē þyncþ " " unriht bēoþ... Þēodscmenn þurfaþ hīe brūcan forðǣm unriht cǣȝbord, hƿonne riht brūcaþ hīe „ “. — ᚹᚩᛞᛖᚾᚻᛖᛚᛗ (ᚷᛖᛋᛈᚱᛖᚳ) 03:32, 12 Þrimilcemōnaþ 2010 (UTC)
Eala, nis me hefig. Ac mann sceal hie on sundortacnu settan. Ic ne cann brucan hie oðerlice (buton mid runwritunge swelce Unicode). Willcume ic þec on míne brúcendsídan! 03:37, 12 Þrimilcemōnaþ 2010 (UTC)
Ic eac finde hit wesan soþ þæt hit eowie þæt gewolde andgiet bet... Willcume ic þec on míne brúcendsídan! 03:38, 12 Þrimilcemōnaþ 2010 (UTC)

“Glēsing Nīƿa Ƿorda”Adiht

Iċ ƿrāt nīƿe ƿeorc, Glēsing Nīƿa Ƿorda, þe man mæȝ on Ƿikibēċ findan. Þā sind “fæstu” nīƿu ƿord, þā þæt þƿǣriaþ ƿē ymbe, for eall menn to brūcenne. — ᚹᚩᛞᛖᚾᚻᛖᛚᛗ (ᚷᛖᛋᛈᚱᛖᚳ) 03:40, 12 Þrimilcemōnaþ 2010 (UTC)

Nu cuðon we efne andwendan hie on ful wordboc? Hwæt þencest þu? Willcume ic þec on míne brúcendsídan! 03:45, 12 Þrimilcemōnaþ 2010 (UTC)
Ȝēa. Iċ mǣne þis ƿeorc to bēonne "ċīeplēas bōc" nīƿa ƿorda, sƿā ne hæbbe iċ publisher. — ᚹᚩᛞᛖᚾᚻᛖᛚᛗ (ᚷᛖᛋᛈᚱᛖᚳ) 03:55, 12 Þrimilcemōnaþ 2010 (UTC)
Eala, ic wolde secgan þus: Couldn't we just make it into a full-scale dictionary (online, of course)? That is to say, not only new words. Willcume ic þec on míne brúcendsídan! 04:04, 12 Þrimilcemōnaþ 2010 (UTC)
Iċ ȝiefe þē... Ƿikiƿordbōc! :D — ᚹᚩᛞᛖᚾᚻᛖᛚᛗ (ᚷᛖᛋᛈᚱᛖᚳ) 04:07, 12 Þrimilcemōnaþ 2010 (UTC)
Ea, gea, ac mann ne geseceþ Niwenglisc word on him to findennde heora Englisc efenweorþ... Þeah hit cuðe swa gedon wesan... Willcume ic þec on míne brúcendsídan! 04:14, 12 Þrimilcemōnaþ 2010 (UTC)
Ohhh, þæt ilċan þing, ac gānde þȳ ōðran ƿeȝe. Ȝēa þæt biþ gōd, ƿē þurfaþ nīƿe sīdan for him, ēac, ȝeliċ "sīde 2". — ᚹᚩᛞᛖᚾᚻᛖᛚᛗ (ᚷᛖᛋᛈᚱᛖᚳ) 04:24, 12 Þrimilcemōnaþ 2010 (UTC)
Awiht æfter þæm. Giese. Ic þence. Willcume ic þec on míne brúcendsídan! 04:28, 12 Þrimilcemōnaþ 2010 (UTC)

Manigfealdung floccaAdiht

Ic wille andwendan manige floccas on heora manigfeald wordcynd. To bysne, ic wille andwendan "heafodstol" on "heafodstolas". Hwæt þencaþ ge? Willcume ic þec on míne brúcendsídan! 03:53, 14 Þrimilcemōnaþ 2010 (UTC)

Ȝēa, mǣst floccas sind mæniȝfealdisc, sƿā hīe bēoþ on þǣre English Ƿikipǣdian, þus eall sceoldon bēon. Mē biþ hit gōd. — ᚹᚩᛞᛖᚾᚻᛖᛚᛗ (ᚷᛖᛋᛈᚱᛖᚳ) 03:56, 14 Þrimilcemōnaþ 2010 (UTC)
Ic hycge þe sē NE Wikipedia hæfþ his floccas ānfeald, oððæt ðe forþæm þe manig brūcendas wrītaþ hine, hē nis eall ān.
Gif man þinceþ ymbe "Flocc:Hēafodstōl", mōt man secgan: "Hwæt þing is sēo burgscipe? - Hēafodstōl, and forþǣm is Hēafodstōl his flocc. Oþðe man mōt secgan: "In hwæs flocc belimpeþ hie? - Hēafodstōlena, and forþǣm is Hēafodstōlas his flocc. Hogweard 12:32, 14 Þrimilcemōnaþ 2010 (UTC)
Hēr, mæniȝfealdisc. — ᚹᚩᛞᛖᚾᚻᛖᛚᛗ (ᚷᛖᛋᛈᚱᛖᚳ) 17:13, 14 Þrimilcemōnaþ 2010 (UTC)
Iċ belīefe þæt bēoþ hīe mæniȝfealdisc sƿā þæt man mæȝ "þās sind hēafodstōlas þǣre ƿorulde" secgan, and sƿā forþ. Ne "þās sind hēafodstōl." Ac, þā on þǣre English Ƿikipǣdian sind mæniȝfealdisc, ȝelīċ mǣst on þisre. — ᚹᚩᛞᛖᚾᚻᛖᛚᛗ (ᚷᛖᛋᛈᚱᛖᚳ) 18:23, 14 Þrimilcemōnaþ 2010 (UTC)

Til is hit, gif þu wilt awendan eallra þāra leafna hwærin is sē flocces naman. Hogweard 22:47, 14 Þrimilcemōnaþ 2010 (UTC)

Ic sceal swa don. Willcume ic þec on míne brúcendsídan! 00:48, 15 Þrimilcemōnaþ 2010 (UTC)

Urg, wow, well... Anyone know of any more for me to do? Willcume ic þec on míne brúcendsídan! 03:55, 15 Þrimilcemōnaþ 2010 (UTC)

Gender of "-a" nounsAdiht

Such native words of English with -a were oftest treated as weak masculines, however, a large number of borrowed country names ending in -a or -ia were their declined according to the declension of the source language or strong feminine (therefore "Italie"). I've seen -a nouns being treated both ways on here, but for categorization purposes, I need a regular way of going about this. Do we go with strong feminine (as in OE) or level it out for ease's sake...? Willcume ic þec on míne brúcendsídan! 02:38, 15 Þrimilcemōnaþ 2010 (UTC)

If the name is an -ia name then it is from Latin or by imitation of Latin and so it follows the feminine pattern, as in the original texts. Sometimes they have Asie and sometimes Asiam using the Latin ending, so I have used both but preferring the more English -e.
On the other hand, plain -a names need not. Corsica is mentioned in Orosius but has him after it, so we can take it as masculine in the original. Affrica though comes out as feminine throughout the same text (except at one point when the scribe makes it masculine).
-e words can go either way as we know, but Europe is consistently feminine.
I think we have to have the -ia names as feminine, but the -a names as masculine (Canada, Botswana), but the continents as feminine! It is the only way to be consistent with the authentic language handed down to us in authentic texts.
Can someone find a reference to Melita in a Bible commentary or a homily? (Paul was shipwrecked there so Ælfric must have mentioned it.) If you do, which way does it go? In Orosius it is feminised, appearing in the accusative as Melitam (a Latin ending again).
Hogweard 17:26, 27 Þrimilcemōnaþ 2010 (UTC)

Nīƿu ƿord in ȝeƿritumAdiht

Ȝif ȝē brūcen nīƿu ƿord in ȝeƿritum þe þū ƿrīte, bidde maciaþ "Nīƿa ƿorda glēsing" on þǣre ȝespreċsīdan þæs ȝeƿrites sƿā þæt ƿē magon hīe understandan. — ᚹᚩᛞᛖᚾᚻᛖᛚᛗ (ᚷᛖᛋᛈᚱᛖᚳ) 00:53, 19 Þrimilcemōnaþ 2010 (UTC)

Bidde þe ymb helpAdiht

I've translated the entire article on NZ into OE. That's the gw version. Unfortunately, the original copier of the article didn't do links (or the article didn't have links). Wile mann mec helpian fruman þær settan (eac, gif mann wille, hit sie god gif mann macie ȝƿ gecynd þæs gewrites)? I also gotta compile a (long) list of the neologisms I used. Gurghhhh.... Ic soþlice sceal settan þæt gewrit on þæt getæl gewrita be landum on þære heafodsidan. Willcume ic þec on míne brúcendsídan! 05:14, 27 Þrimilcemōnaþ 2010 (UTC)

"Iofes" and "Iupiter"Adiht

There are both articles there (for the planets)... We should only have one, really (and "Iofes" is the one that was found in OE). In fact, since Thor was considered the equivalent of Jupiter, shouldn't we have either "Þunor" or "Þūr" (it seems to me Old English-er)? Or is there a specific mention of the planet as "Iofes" over and above "Þunor" which I'm not aware of? Willcume ic þec on míne brúcendsídan! 00:40, 12 Sēremōnaþ 2010 (UTC)

I'd say we go for Þunor, as you said, as He's our interpretation. — ᚹᚩᛞᛖᚾᚻᛖᛚᛗ (ᚷᛖᛋᛈᚱᛖᚳ) 02:58, 12 Sēremōnaþ 2010 (UTC)
Right, well, looks set. I'll do it just now. Willcume ic þec on míne brúcendsídan! 04:07, 13 Sēremōnaþ 2010 (UTC)


Just a note to correct a common error I've picked up on (I was guilty, too, until I recently found out it was an error): the use of "ēacan" to mean "add... to" rather than "add to, increase". So, when we say "ic wille ēacan hlencan þissum gewrite", we are saying "I want to increase/add to a link to/for this page" (e.g. make the link greater/longer for that page? rather than writing a link in). Willcume ic þec on míne brúcendsídan! 00:51, 12 Sēremōnaþ 2010 (UTC)


Hwenon cymþ þis word? Ic nat þæt hit si on Englisce gecuþ to awihte. Bidde þe, ægmann; gief bysen his... Willcume ic þec on míne brúcendsídan! 07:02, 28 Sēremōnaþ 2010 (UTC)

Front pageAdiht

Should the "Gecorene mynddagas" thing on the front page be up alongside the large Sutton Hoo picture? I think it looks considerably/noticeably spaced out as it is. Willcume ic þec on míne brúcendsídan! 01:15, 2 Mǣdmōnaþ 2010 (UTC)

Originally I'd just copied the wiki coding from another Wikipedia language edition, altered the colors, removed some elements, and made it more fitting for us. One fellow was working on a prototype update, but he sorta went quiet. It's open to improvement, but it's far better than it was before. — ᚹᚩᛞᛖᚾᚻᛖᛚᛗ (ᚷᛖᛋᛈᚱᛖᚳ) 02:17, 2 Mǣdmōnaþ 2010 (UTC)
Righto! It is certainly better than it was before, but I'll see what I can do to even it out... !Willcume ic þec on míne brúcendsídan! 02:53, 2 Mǣdmōnaþ 2010 (UTC)
I've done something over at the sandbox. Feedback, please. I took out a lot of unused code to make it easier for me to work with... But I can work around that on the true front page if needs be. Willcume ic þec on míne brúcendsídan! 04:25, 2 Mǣdmōnaþ 2010 (UTC)
So far, the Sandbox version yields me this:
ᚹᚩᛞᛖᚾᚻᛖᛚᛗ (ᚷᛖᛋᛈᚱᛖᚳ) 18:00, 6 Mǣdmōnaþ 2010 (UTC)
Perhaps we should use a logo that is more letter-box format; a vine scroll or some such. That would leave the lower part of the page visible. I cannot put my hand on the right graphic as yet though. (As so often, in this we are up against the Latin Vicipædia, which has achieved a look perfectly reflecting the order, confidence and indeed ruthless brutality of Roman culture.) Hogweard 21:17, 6 Mǣdmōnaþ 2010 (UTC)
Try zooming out (ctrl+mouse wheel). Willcume ic þec on míne brúcendsídan! 21:26, 6 Mǣdmōnaþ 2010 (UTC)
I do agree with Hogweard; I think we need to come up with a more... dunno... uniquely Anglo-Saxon front page. As a still-minor Wikipedia, we should probably at this stage also still be focusing Anglo-Saxon culture and history for our articles. Not that I'm one to talk. I'm gonna go look at some other minor Wikipedias to see how their front pages are relative to their culture. Willcume ic þec on míne brúcendsídan! 23:58, 6 Mǣdmōnaþ 2010 (UTC)
Never mind what I said before about zooming out. I've converted it to width by percent. It should be better now. Willcume ic þec on míne brúcendsídan! 03:09, 7 Mǣdmōnaþ 2010 (UTC)
Unfortunately I only have 1024x786 resolution available, so I cant see much of a difference. — ᚹᚩᛞᛖᚾᚻᛖᛚᛗ (ᚷᛖᛋᛈᚱᛖᚳ) 03:25, 7 Mǣdmōnaþ 2010 (UTC)
Changed the percents to 40 and 35... Maybe better now? Willcume ic þec on míne brúcendsídan! 00:17, 8 Mǣdmōnaþ 2010 (UTC)
Umm, anyone wanna have a look at it? Willcume ic þec on míne brúcendsídan! 08:07, 24 Mǣdmōnaþ 2010 (UTC)
For me, the headline text now extends out of its bounds (on Google Chrome). — ᚹᚩᛞᛖᚾᚻᛖᛚᛗ (ᚷᛖᛋᛈᚱᛖᚳ) 22:33, 24 Mǣdmōnaþ 2010 (UTC)
How about now?    Ƿes hāl!     06:46, 5 Wēodmōnaþ 2010 (UTC)
When maximized on my 1024 resolution, the two main elements appear side-by-side. (I'll admit I'm not too fond of the excessive red. Perhaps red's fine for the very top) — ᚹᚩᛞᛖᚾᚻᛖᛚᛗ (ᚷᛖᛋᛈᚱᛖᚳ) 06:59, 5 Wēodmōnaþ 2010 (UTC)
Okay, well, side-by-side was the aim (so that's good). I'll muck around with colors a bit.    Ƿes hāl!     07:47, 5 Wēodmōnaþ 2010 (UTC)
I would like to propose the current version in the sandbox as our new front page. Gotta get a move on with stuff... not good to let it get stale. Comments for finalization, please.    Ƿes hāl!     04:49, 11 Wēodmōnaþ 2010 (UTC)
Lemme go through and standardize the orthography, then we'll give it the green light. — ᚹᚩᛞᛖᚾᚻᛖᛚᛗ (ᚷᛖᛋᛈᚱᛖᚳ) 06:04, 11 Wēodmōnaþ 2010 (UTC)


Mē þyncþ sceal hit ƿoruld bēon. — ᚹᚩᛞᛖᚾᚻᛖᛚᛗ (ᚷᛖᛋᛈᚱᛖᚳ) 17:52, 6 Mǣdmōnaþ 2010 (UTC)

It's not a matter of neologism (or even new usage). The authentic terms are: dweligende tungol, dwelignede steorra, and planēta. Willcume ic þec on míne brúcendsídan! 21:28, 6 Mǣdmōnaþ 2010 (UTC)

Yay! ƿ and ȝAdiht

Ēalā! Ic hæbbe nū macode mīnne cǣgbord swā þæt hit cann þās stafan (ƿ and ȝ) wrītan (for þisre webbsīdan). Ic sceal nū weorðan wenod him... swīðe earfoþ weorc. Willcume ic þec on míne brúcendsídan! 07:46, 3 Wēodmōnaþ 2010 (UTC)

Ah, sƿīðe gōd. Iċ ēace þīn hlenċe ontō þǣre helpsīdan ymbe Engliscum cǣȝbordum. — ᚹᚩᛞᛖᚾᚻᛖᛚᛗ (ᚷᛖᛋᛈᚱᛖᚳ) 08:12, 3 Wēodmōnaþ 2010 (UTC)

Ūre Ƿikipǣdia tācnAdiht

On þǣre uppan hyrnan, ūre tācn cƿiþþ Wicipǣdia, ac mē þynċþ hit sceal Ƿikipǣdia bēon:

  1. Ƿē þurfaþ k on steade c, forþǣm -ici- biþ iċi/ichi, ac mid k, þǣr nis nǣniȝ friȝnunge ymbe his stefn: iki.
  2. Būton hƿæðer līċaþ man oþþe w oþþe ƿ bȳ ƿrītende Ƿikipǣdian ȝeƿritu, ƿære Eald Englisc in ȝēara dagum hæfde ƿ, and þus mē þynċþ sceal hit ƿ hæfþ for þǣm tācnbiliðe.

And, siþþan hit ne hæfþ nān g, þǣr ne biþ nān feoht oþþe unȝerādnes ymbe hƿæðer to brūcenne g oþþe ȝ :)

ᚹᚩᛞᛖᚾᚻᛖᛚᛗ (ᚷᛖᛋᛈᚱᛖᚳ) 00:38, 5 Wēodmōnaþ 2010 (UTC)

Ic þafie þis. "Ƿikipǣdia - Sēo frēo ƿīsdōmbōc" mē ȝōd þynceþ.
    Ƿes hāl!      03:17, 5 Wēodmōnaþ 2010 (UTC)
 ᚹᚩᛞᛖᚾᚻᛖᛚᛗ (ᚷᛖᛋᛈᚱᛖᚳ) 04:44, 5 Wēodmōnaþ 2010 (UTC)
You may wish to change the spelling in the main page header and here too. I think we should go for a fresh look for the main page... something similar to the Latin Wikipedia would really add a touch of class to this Wikipedia. Perhaps someone skilled in SVG images could create something like the Latin main page header. What do ġē think? Hayden120 16:59, 25 Wēodmōnaþ 2010 (UTC)
Check the "Front page" section on this for the discussion about a new front page... Also check the sandbox for the front page I am proposing (and suggestions on color, layout, etc., are welcome). However, Wodenhelm postponed it until the things put forward by me under the "Standards and standardization" section are worked out. Unfortunately, that has come to a complete standstill (although Wodenhelm has been around a bit since then). I am just waiting for a go-ahead. 'Till then, I'm working over by translatewiki.net.    Ƿes hāl!     04:48, 26 Wēodmōnaþ 2010 (UTC)

Go for it!ᚹᚩᛞᛖᚾᚻᛖᛚᛗ (ᚷᛖᛋᛈᚱᛖᚳ) 21:20, 26 Wēodmōnaþ 2010 (UTC)

Whoo! Right, well, there it is. Thanks! I'm a little busy today and tomorrow (wanna make this project take a short a time as possible so minimum mess and transitional period), so I'll start day after tomorrow.    Ƿes hāl!     08:35, 27 Wēodmōnaþ 2010 (UTC)

Sīdan ymbe endebyrdnessumAdiht

Iċ þohte, hit mæȝ bēon þæt (on bisene) būton ȝeƿritu ymbe ǣlċ þing þǣre endebyrdnesse (sanghord, gamen, asf), ƿē sceoldon hīe togædre bringan, into āne ȝeƿrite. Sƿelċe, eall Slayer sanghordas sceolon on þǣm Slayer ȝeƿrite bēon. Þis macaþ langor sīdan, and, ƿē bēoþ tō lytel Ƿikipǣdian to hæbbenne ȝeƿritu ymbe ǣlċ and æfre sanghord þe hlōþ ƿriton. — ᚹᚩᛞᛖᚾᚻᛖᛚᛗ (ᚷᛖᛋᛈᚱᛖᚳ) 07:32, 5 Wēodmōnaþ 2010 (UTC)

Nis mē hefiȝ. Ic hæbbe fēaƿu ȝeƿritu be drēame ȝeƿriten, ac ic cann hīe ēaðe ȝenōg bindan ætȝædere.    Ƿes hāl!     07:50, 5 Wēodmōnaþ 2010 (UTC)

Standards and standardizationAdiht

  • I have increasingly been noticing the lack of standardization on here, and the lack of the most common writing standard of all Old English standards - full ȝƿ (especially now that I can actually use it; the only actually authentic standard currently in use at all is Runic, and that was/is comparatively rare - most people use(d) the Latin alphabet over and above Runic - also, Latin can be read by all browsers already). I think that this full ȝƿ - as the most common authentic OE standard, should be used on all things "universal" (system messages - rather than the mixed standards there are now; slogans - as, if I read Wodenhelm's talk correctly, is right now happening; and the default front page). I also think that this, as the most common authentic standard, should be recognized as such by coming into usage on here (so far we have gw, palatalized-marking (ȝ/g ƿ c/ċ), and Runic - the standard is not even recognized (at least in practice) so far on this Wikipedia). Also, I think this full ȝƿ standard, as it was the norm in OE times and practices (and what language is it we're using here?), should be the norm now (or at least be recognized as such, even if the majority of articles are gw/palatalization-marking, and should be made the only page without a tag marking page version.
  • I don't care if anyone else is bothered to bring this standardization about (I am willing to invest the time necessary to make sure of tagging gw pages, and any rogue palatalization-marking pages or Runic pages); I just want a go-ahead, and an agreement to the maintaining this standard of page-tagging (and also an agreement to the introduction of the OE ȝƿ standard) - so that I don't happen to enrage anyone by moving great numbers of pages to names with tags other than that which they created them under, etc.
  • So, bearing in mind that you don't have to do any of the work if you don't want to, does anyone object to me doing a full and thorough standardizing of our tagging system (and the system messages - to full ȝƿ-usage). If anyone does object, please explain.
  • Thank you for taking the time to read the entire text.    Ƿes hāl!     05:25, 11 Wēodmōnaþ 2010 (UTC)
I understand your motivation, fully. But so far you've been vague on what it is you wish to do. (I tend to do that too, go into free-thought/ramble mode). Spell out what it is you're doing? — ᚹᚩᛞᛖᚾᚻᛖᛚᛗ (ᚷᛖᛋᛈᚱᛖᚳ) 06:01, 11 Wēodmōnaþ 2010 (UTC)
Okay, so:
  • I want to standardize all system messages to full ȝƿ (instead of mixed gw and palatalization-marking, as is now).
  • I want to introduce a fourth page version (full ȝw - most common authentic standard in OE times), which would have no tags (making it the new standard, over and above the current no-tags gw version pages).
  • I want to tag all current non-tagged gw version pages as gw pages (I would do this myself if needs be)
    • I would also tag any "rogue" (untagged) palatalization-marking version pages and Runic version pages
  • And have the untagged, full ȝƿ version of main page set as standard main page.
That's it...
   Ƿes hāl!     07:23, 11 Wēodmōnaþ 2010 (UTC)
Eh, I'm concerned that a 4th standard would be "sideways development," (neither forwards, nor backwards). But system messages must indeed be uniform. I've put in much effort there already, and I'll willingly go back and do some more, to help fulfill that task. Any inconsistency there is due to messages having sloppy translation work from the past. — ᚹᚩᛞᛖᚾᚻᛖᛚᛗ (ᚷᛖᛋᛈᚱᛖᚳ) 15:27, 11 Wēodmōnaþ 2010 (UTC)
Maybe, but I am willing to put my time into it myself to see it happen... And, the hard and the short of it is, I will use ȝƿ somewhere, if not here. I now point out that the standard you're using on system messages is to make it easy for beginners (which is the majority of Englisc speakers). But, do they use Simple English; or, more relevant, English with various accent marks, etc., to distinguish between inconcistencies in the letter-sound correspondence in Modern English, to accomadate for people learning English, on the Modern English Wikipedia?    Ƿes hāl!     10:17, 18 Wēodmōnaþ 2010 (UTC)
Ic abīde nū ȝīet...    Ƿes hāl!     05:08, 25 Wēodmōnaþ 2010 (UTC)
  1. After giving it thought, how bout for pages, we simply use ȝƿ in its current form (with ȝegaderung, etc), and then if a Runic page exists, that'll be the alternative form. That's it. That should simplify everything absolutely.
  2. Perhaps in the future, we could debate/consider having macrons removed altogether, only being used where true clarification is needed (īs vs is), although this is of lesser concern to me. — ᚹᚩᛞᛖᚾᚻᛖᛚᛗ (ᚷᛖᛋᛈᚱᛖᚳ) 03:58, 4 Hāligmōnaþ 2010 (UTC)'
Removal of macrons is minor issue, since length marks were (less commonly than not, but still) used in OE (though they didn't look quite like a macron). I will do not mark palatalization, unless I am feeling at all compelled/wont to accommodate for beginners/learners. That means it's runic only for me here, providing this goes ahead. Gott wisst 05:46, 4 Hāligmōnaþ 2010 (UTC)
"I will do not mark palatalization" Do what now? — ᚹᚩᛞᛖᚾᚻᛖᛚᛗ (ᚷᛖᛋᛈᚱᛖᚳ) 07:15, 4 Hāligmōnaþ 2010 (UTC)
It can mean either, "I will not mark palatalization" or "I do not mark palatalization", or both ("I will (do)"+"(I) do not mark"). Admittedly, such wording was not intended.    Ƿes hāl!     03:59, 5 Hāligmōnaþ 2010 (UTC)
Oh, haha, that kinda threw me off. I make a distinction between ȝ and g just because of how significant of a sound shift it is, as well as the fact that where an actual g- is often used in other Germanic languages that I keep up with, using g- here can really throw me off, but otherwise I still see it as important to mark: how ȝearƿe split into both gear and yarrow. — ᚹᚩᛞᛖᚾᚻᛖᛚᛗ (ᚷᛖᛋᛈᚱᛖᚳ) 04:40, 5 Hāligmōnaþ 2010 (UTC)
Well, actually, that example is incorrect. "Gear" came with the Norse invaders (where palatalization did not occur; Early Modern English cognate to/descendant of "gearwe/gearu" is "yare" - "ready" - the historical occurrence of which would seem to show that that word was in fact palatalized... Here is a significant truth: That certain varieties of OE did not always have palatalization is evidenced by the fact that they made no accommodations for it when they first started using the Latin alphabet (later, they sometimes did make accommodations for it, like writing palatalized "g" as "i", and never using "k" to mark palatalized "c", but sometimes using it to mark non-palatalized "c"). One must mark palatalization to the exclusion of these varieties (one of which was probably Old West Saxon, which, funnily enough, is more or less the standard used on this wiki), and one must mark palatalization using such techniques as dots and g as opposed to ȝ as nothing more than a modern, non-OE fixed standard of distinction (meaning that, sometimes the distinction was made, but it was not necessarily a given; although some did it with a bit of regularity, and other did not). Of course, then one must consider whether or not to mark leveling (which you do, just in case you didn't know). As fore-said, I would/will simply switch to using Runic.    Ƿes hāl!     06:01, 5 Hāligmōnaþ 2010 (UTC)
Do you have a Runic keyboard layout? — ᚹᚩᛞᛖᚾᚻᛖᛚᛗ (ᚷᛖᛋᛈᚱᛖᚳ) 14:50, 5 Hāligmōnaþ 2010 (UTC)
Nese, ac ic finde þæt ƿel ēaðe tō bētenne.    Ƿes hāl!     05:17, 6 Hāligmōnaþ 2010 (UTC)

Proposal to close Old English WikiquoteAdiht

Hello. This is a message to inform you that there is currently a proposal to close the Old English Wikiquote. The discussion can be found here. Thank you. TeleComNasSprVen 01:35, 22 Gēolmōnaþ 2010 (UTC)

Eac, Teohhung to forleosenne ǷikibeċAdiht

Man teohhaþ to forleosenne ure Ƿikibeċ. Me þynċþ sculon ƿe hie sparian ƿiþ lyre. Bidde þider ga and ƿrit þin cyre ƿiþ lyre, hie to sparienne. — ᚹᚩᛞᛖᚾᚻᛖᛚᛗ (ᚷᛖᛋᛈᚱᛖᚳ) 03:18, 24 Gēolmōnaþ 2010 (UTC)

Sǣliȝ ȜēolaAdiht

Sƿīðe sǣliȝ Ȝēola ēoƿ eallum!

Nīƿsǣlendisc Crīstmæsstrēoƿ

To þē ēac and þīnum cynne! — ᚹᚩᛞᛖᚾᚻᛖᛚᛗ (ᚷᛖᛋᛈᚱᛖᚳ) 18:03, 25 Gēolmōnaþ 2010 (UTC)


lol... — ᚹᚩᛞᛖᚾᚻᛖᛚᛗ (ᚷᛖᛋᛈᚱᛖᚳ) 21:42, 30 Þrimilcemōnaþ 2011 (UTC)

Proposals for closing projects/Closure of Old English WikipediaAdiht

This project has been proposed for deletion by the new Meta:Closing projects policy. Please see Meta:Proposals for closing projects/Closure of Old English Wikipedia. JohnnyMrNinja 06:05, 4 Mǣdmōnaþ 2011 (UTC)

Man sparode ure Ƿikipædiae. — ᚹᚩᛞᛖᚾᚻᛖᛚᛗ (ᚷᛖᛋᛈᚱᛖᚳ) 00:30, 23 Wēodmōnaþ 2011 (UTC)

And it now looks as if the project will be kept open, ACEOREVIVED 14:17, 23 Wēodmōnaþ 2011 (UTC)

Mē līcaþ sƿīðe! Great! Although when those opposes began to pile up, I felt pretty safe and kept working anyway...    Ƿes hāl!     01:09, 24 Wēodmōnaþ 2011 (UTC)

..the cross language link of the homepageAdiht

why it is not link to wikipedia with lan\guages like zh-classical, yue, zh but wuu? C933103 12:41, 6 Mǣdmōnaþ 2011 (UTC)

Not quite sure - I didn't compile the list. But it would appear to me that the list includes other small languages (so wuu., but not zh., and not es.), and other closely related languages (so de., even though it is a major language) (cf. the Modern English Wikipedia which has a list of other major languages).    Ƿes hāl!     22:05, 6 Mǣdmōnaþ 2011 (UTC)

Someone wants to be unblocked?Adiht

  • In User talk:Anthony Appleyard#IP I received this message in the Azeri language (= Azerbaijani):
    • Salam. Mən və User:Vugar 1981 və digər bəzi iş yoldaşlarımız eyni IP-dən istifadə edirik. EnVikidə Vugar 1981-nin bloklanması nəticəsində bizim IP-də bloklanmışdır. Sizdən blokun götürülməsini xahiş edirəm. Və yaxud da mənə Ipblock-exempt istifadəçi hüququ verməyinizi xahiş edirəm. Təşəkkürlər! Hörmətlə, Cekli829 08:12, 21 Ēastermōnaþ 2011 (UTC)
    • As far as I can tell, User:Cekli829 is complaining that he was unintentionally blocked by a blocking of User:Vugar 1981, because both use the same IPA address, or something like that; User:Cekli829 wants to be unblocked, and/or to be made immune from IPA-blocking. Anthony Appleyard 21:37, 19 Mǣdmōnaþ 2011 (UTC)
  • Problem həll olunub. Hal hazırda heç bir problem yoxdur. Mən və User:Vugar 1981 və digər bəzi iş yoldaşlarımız eyni IP-dən istifadə edirik. --Cekli829 12:52, 20 Mǣdmōnaþ 2011 (UTC)
  • Eft Azerbaijanisc gereord. http://translate.google.com/ awendede thaet to Niwelglisce swa "The problem has been solved. At the moment there is no problem. Me(= User:Cekli829) and User:Vugar 1981 and the other from the same IP yoldaslarımız use some work.". Anthony Appleyard 16:22, 20 Mǣdmōnaþ 2011 (UTC)

Survey on this wikipediaAdiht

Hi, I cannot speak Old English, I am sorry for writing in English therefore. I am from Germany, Bremen, and I am studying linguistics and I have a seminar on language ausbau. This is, when a language doesn't have enough words to express all the modern things and it gets then upgrated with new expressions to fulfill it. And I want to study how Wikipedia can help on that and this is why I doing those surveys. I have two questions for you: 1. What do you think is the contribution of Wikipedia that your languages gets beter developped and gets new expressions for modern things, 2. How do you build new words, are there certain patterns or methods? (And would you be so kind and show me, where you are discussing on new words?) I would be really thankful, if there came some meanings and answers together. Thank you very much, Sincerely Zylbath 16:52, 13 Hāligmōnaþ 2011 (UTC)

If you take a look here, you'll see the process that we use. We try mostly either transliterations, or creating new terms altogether, based on the same pattern as can be seen in existing Englisc texts. Take a look at that page's Talk page, you'll see where it's divided A-M, N-Z. From there, discussion for each individual term can be seen. — ᚹᚩᛞᛖᚾᚻᛖᛚᛗ (ᚷᛖᛋᛈᚱᛖᚳ) 20:06, 13 Hāligmōnaþ 2011 (UTC)
I didn't actually understand the first question very well - the word order was a little unusual. Could you say it in German to clarify? I understand German.
But here's some details on the second.
For new words we:
  • Make words
    1. Make words based on modern Germanic words (from German, Dutch, Icelandic, etc.)
    2. Make words based on words from any other languages
    3. Come up with totally new words
    • There were a number of actively used suffixes and prefixes for verbs, nouns, adjectives, etc., in Old English, which would have been used without a second thought (just like an Modern English speaker doesn't have a second thought about adding such suffixes as "-er" or "-ness" to many words), and we use them often; but also these patterns were commonly used for compounding words, and we use them here (note that the vast majority of compound words in Old English had only two non-affix parts, but sometimes they had more):
  1. verb stem+noun
  2. adjective+noun
  3. noun+noun
  4. prefix+noun
  5. prefix+verb
  6. noun+adjective
  7. adjective+adjective
  8. verb stem+adjective
(We barely ever need to devise new verbs.)
  • Borrow words (usually for country names, but also for other things; example: "coning" - "rabbit")
  • Make words with borrowed parts (example: "Russland" - "Russia")
And although we do have a "discussion process", often we simply devise such words ourselves (because there are often a lot of words which demand an innovative Old English equivalent when translating or writing an article, and we don't want to go through a sometimes lengthy process for each one) and list them in the discussion page under a special section, so others can quickly find out what they mean, too. Then, if someone takes issue with a particular word, or offers an improvement, we will consider and discuss that.    Ƿes hāl!     09:16, 14 Hāligmōnaþ 2011 (UTC)

Old English?Adiht

I'm completely sure Old English is a dead language, so why do we have an encyclopedia in a language under 10000 people know? 17:52, 17 Winterfylleþ 2011 (UTC)

Depends on how one is to define a language as "dead". No native/primary speakers? Almost certainly. Unused? Definitely not. Please have a look at this; and give us a bittova break for now, eh? This is a decently working Wikipedia project, and you don't have to put time into this project if you don't want to.    Ƿes hāl!     22:10, 17 Winterfylleþ 2011 (UTC)

How to find certain wordsAdiht

Hey there, anyone know how to find absolutely any word in Wikipedia? I tried to find certain words, even using advanced search, which I happen to know are on the talk page of a certain page, but I was totally unable to find them. For example, try "dicotyledon". I know it is in the talk page of "ȝærsbēam", but I nevertheless cannot find it using search, even when I have searching in talk pages allowed.    Ƿes hāl!     08:23, 2 Blōtmōnaþ 2011 (UTC)

Rather than just hitting Enter, try clicking the Search icon in the searchbar. Currently, "dicotyledon" is a redirect to the red-link page Tƿiblēdtrēoƿ. Is that what you meant? — ᚹᚩᛞᛖᚾᚻᛖᛚᛗ (ᚷᛖᛋᛈᚱᛖᚳ) 00:36, 3 Blōtmōnaþ 2011 (UTC)
No, I've tried that. The only reason that it is a redirect is because I created that. I am pretty sure that I used a word for "dicotyledon" in an article I have translated (other than the "ȝærsbēam" article I just did), but I am not able to remember exactly what the word was (I do believe it was along the lines of "tƿiblēdbēam", but maybe not that exactly), and I cannot remember what article it was. Also, it was recent enough that I am pretty sure I would have put it on a list of new words in the talk page of that article. However, even if I did not, I certainly did write the word "dicotyledon" on the talk page for "ȝærsbēam". However, when I click "search" and have "talk pages" enabled, it still does not list it (that is, the "ȝærsbēam" talk page), which it should because it is actually there, suggesting that there is something not quite right with the search system?    Ƿes hāl!     03:22, 3 Blōtmōnaþ 2011 (UTC)
Pulling up the Search page first, disabling Heafod, and enabling only Gesprec, yields me only the two known results of that word on Talk pages: Here, and on Twibledbeam: search results. Ya might have just forgotten to list it (which I do sometimes also). — ᚹᚩᛞᛖᚾᚻᛖᛚᛗ (ᚷᛖᛋᛈᚱᛖᚳ) 22:08, 3 Blōtmōnaþ 2011 (UTC)
It would indeed seem that I forgot to list it (the first time I used a word for it), but I certainly did not forget to list it in the "ȝærsbēam" article (look the article up). However, it nevertheless did not yield "ȝærsbēam" first time I searched it (shortly after I wrote the article). But when I just searched now, it did show it. So maybe it takes time to update with the search? Thanks anyway.    Ƿes hāl!     06:11, 4 Blōtmōnaþ 2011 (UTC)
Huh, strange. "Search" might not be optimal and could just stand to use some improvement, then. Nothing really else I can think of. — ᚹᚩᛞᛖᚾᚻᛖᛚᛗ (ᚷᛖᛋᛈᚱᛖᚳ) 04:20, 6 Blōtmōnaþ 2011 (UTC)


I just want to thank the reasoning brains behind introducing letters that explicitly mark palatalized g and c. I've wanted to learn OE for a while and have made efforts in that direction, but I'm always discouraged by the fact that few sources indicate when to pronounce these letters palatalized. Advice to the effect that "you'll get the hang of it eventually" is totally unhelpful. So, thank you for this. Wikipedia FTW. Madler 14:53, 14 Gēolmōnaþ 2011 (UTC)

To learn the rules of palatalization and also Gothic helps very much to learn when palatalization takes place on OE.    Ƿes hāl!     20:54, 14 Gēolmōnaþ 2011 (UTC)
You're welcome. For the longest time, more conservative members hated the idea. It depends on sound environment, which can mostly be represented by spelling... but then you also get funny cases which seem to defy rules, that get you confused when you go to think about it, such as cicen. We know this to be chiken, but, you have both -ic- and -ce- in the word. — ᚹᚩᛞᛖᚾᚻᛖᛚᛗ (ᚷᛖᛋᛈᚱᛖᚳ) 02:30, 15 Gēolmōnaþ 2011 (UTC)

Interesting OE bookAdiht

Thought you guys might be keen to have a look at Lǣcebōc. That website also has many other Old English sources which I have been unable to find elsewhere. If you're not sure what to search for, try look in the explanations for references here. You should find lotsa books to look for. Gott wisst 03:22, 29 Se Æfterra Gēola 2012 (UTC)

Use of the letter Yogh (ȝ)Adiht

Is it attested? According to a few books on Old English that I have, 'ȝ' only appeared in the Middle English period. Why is it used here? 02:28, 1 Þrimilcemōnaþ 2012 (UTC)

Yogh is not attested in OE as distinct from g, it was simply the way that g was written in OE (many OE writers wrote Latin using yogh "instead" of g). So, it is a more accurate representation of the shape of the g written in OE texts than modern "g". There was a large orthography quarrel on here before my time, and there was a resolution, but it was, in my opinion, messy.

Basically, we need a bit of software that automatically produces various different orthography version tabs for a page (similar to what they have on Chinese Wikipedia and Serbian Wikipedia) (and that would definitely solve the problem); but I have no idea where to request that.    Ƿes hāl!     08:13, 13 Þrimilcemōnaþ 2012 (UTC)

Perhaps an administrator on the Serbian Wikipedia could help? I don't speak any Serbian though. Spoonman (talk) 03:45, 17 Þrimilcemōnaþ 2012 (UTC)
The issue nearly caused ingewinn last time it was raised, but actually I agree with you. And I don't speak Serbian either! Hogweard (talk) 22:14, 24 Þrimilcemōnaþ 2012 (UTC)
Hello! I have completed a script that allows for conversion between three modes: GW, yogh+wynn, and runes. For more information, see Ƿicipǣdia:Þorpes_Ƿiella#Different_pages_for_different_spellings. (I may add more options, for macron vs accent, etc., if requested). PiRSquared17 (talk) 03:17, 26 Winterfylleþ 2012 (UTC)

Newer look for front pageAdiht

We need to revise the front page. It still doesn't look absolutely clean-cut. Also, some of the colours used don't display properly on internet explorer, which is one of the most widely used web-browsers. I think it's not a "safe" colour (so it shows up as black on internet explorer). That needs to be changed.    Ƿes hāl!     22:24, 15 Sēremōnaþ 2012 (UTC)

Never mind about the colour. The tables are just written in such a way as to not display that properly on internet explorer.
I've not noticed a colour problem, but if there is one it must be dealt with. Yes, it could be improved. We have to fill the space in the absence of an "on this day", and it ought to reflect the culture. The Latin one has a classical look. Perhaps we need a mock knot-work illuminated manuscript look? As to the space, perhaps we need a standing text to fill the space, all about Wicipædia and Englisc, with a link to a modern English translation of the same. Hogweard (talk) 21:47, 16 Sēremōnaþ 2012 (UTC)
Perhaps we could begin with a text like this:

Ƿicipædia is yrmen wisdom bōc hwærin mōt man gædrian cnawing and lār þisse worulde in eallum hiere brādnesse and mistlicnesse; ymbe landum and lēodum, manne and mægþe, eorle and ceorle, stǣr and lār.

Ðeos bōc is on Englisc gewriten, se wæs gemǣnne spræc on Englum in geardagum and hwærof greow Nīwe Englisc, se is nū gemǣne gereord on manigum folcum ofer eallum middangearde.

Do build on that though. It shouldn't be too difficult to construct a giant svg illuminated Ƿ, perhaps with a scribbling scribe pictured within the loop, if someone can find a good enough picture to use.
Hogweard (talk) 10:18, 19 Sēremōnaþ 2012 (UTC)

Cleanup proposal for the list of links to other Wikipedias on the main pageAdiht

Awhile ago, I talked with Gottistgut about cleaning up the main page's list of links to other Wikipedias; we boiled it down to Wikipedias in Germanic languages, Celtic languages (including Breton), and Latin (because of its cultural relevance to the Anglo-Saxons).

What do you guys think?

Espreon (talk) 19:52, 10 Blōtmōnaþ 2012 (UTC)

Works for me. — ᚹᚩᛞᛖᚾᚻᛖᛚᛗ (ᚷᛖᛋᛈᚱᛖᚳ) 00:13, 11 Blōtmōnaþ 2012 (UTC)
We can't do Latin without Greek! We're hoping to be listed on other Wikipedias, so out of courtesy we might include the big languages too; French, Italian Castilian, Russian, Arabic and Chinese. There's no need to list absolutedly everything though. Hogweard (talk) 16:08, 11 Blōtmōnaþ 2012 (UTC)
I would have put Greek on my list if the Greek Wikipedia were in Ancient Greek (feel free to continue discussing this, though). As for the other big Wikipedias, I figured they have enough people to figure out where they are, so I didn't consider them. Now, for that possibility you mentioned, I highly doubt they would consider adding a link to us until we get everything together and show miraculous growth or something.
Espreon (talk) 16:57, 11 Blōtmōnaþ 2012 (UTC)
True, but we can't miss all the major world languages out, as it makes us look as if we're not taking seriously our part of the Wikipedia project (which is arguable but we nearly got deleted once so I'm nervous). Hogweard (talk) 12:43, 15 Blōtmōnaþ 2012 (UTC)

So I would suggest exactly what was proposed, namely Germanic languages, Celtic languages and Latin, but to add French. Hogweard (talk) 13:53, 30 Blōtmōnaþ 2012 (UTC)

Sorry for taking a long time to reply to this (life's been keeping me busy), but why is it just French that has to be added now? ― Espreon (talk) 02:45, 12 Gēolmōnaþ 2012 (UTC)
Well, French the one next door, the number two tongue of the western world and one with which we are most familiar, so it fits. There is the Norman connection (there is a Normand wikipedia, but modern farmer's Norman-French, so I wasn't going to suggest adding that one, though it is a possibility. Hogweard (talk) 11:58, 13 Gēolmōnaþ 2012 (UTC)

The long sAdiht

Wasn't the letter ſ used in Old English? If so, why isn't it used in this Wikipedia? Грампис (talk) 09:17, 5 Gēolmōnaþ 2012 (UTC)

A long s is not a letter; it is only the shape that a small s tended to be given in handwriting. Hogweard (talk) 16:38, 5 Gēolmōnaþ 2012 (UTC)
Ah, thank you for clarification. Грампис (talk) 09:52, 6 Gēolmōnaþ 2012 (UTC)

g: ȝ or ᵹAdiht

In the debate about the form of the letter G in lower case, we have used yogh for those who prefer that form. There is a specific Unicode "insular g": U+1D79. It appears as and exists only in lower case of course. Hogweard (talk) 07:40, 7 Gēolmōnaþ 2012 (UTC)

Shall I add this to my transliteration script then? It's a very simple change. PiRSquared17 (talk) 16:04, 7 Gēolmōnaþ 2012 (UTC)
The reason for your transliteration script (which is marvellous) was the particular preference of some users for yogh and wynn. If they would prefer the insular g in place of yogh then that would be a good thing to do, but if they still prefer yogh, we should leave it. I prefer a plain g so I am not part of the discussion: I am just drawing it to attention. Let's see if anyone has any thoughts on this. Hogweard (talk) 18:26, 7 Gēolmōnaþ 2012 (UTC)


ahem, sorry for not speaking old english. i find this wiki of immense interest, but havent quite gotten the hang of the language quite yet. anyways, on the front page it says, Sēo frēo ƿīsdōmbōc þe ǣniȝ mæȝ ādihtan. i think edit should be changed to something with anglo-saxon roots, like, alter? you guys know the shit, you can figure something out.

Well, "alter" comes from Old French "alterer". Perhaps "wendan" is better? PiRSquared17 (talk) 19:37, 23 Gēolmōnaþ 2012 (UTC)
Adihtan is authentic Englisc, even if ultimately it was borrowed out of the Latin dictum and redressed in native clothing.Hogweard (talk) 20:27, 23 Gēolmōnaþ 2012 (UTC)
Hogweard is correct. A-S was far more Germanic, but it was never "linguistically pure", even in its earlier proto-A-S stage, as borrowings had existed when its speakers were still on the Continent, before making the great voyage.   Wodenhelm (Ȝesprec)   23:11, 23 Gēolmōnaþ 2012 (UTC)
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